Going Archmage

[andargor]

But as has already been pointed out a magic missle would do 5d4+5 auto hit no save for 17.5 damage on average. A 1st level arcane fire bolt would do at most 6d6 (assume level 5 archmage) or 21 damage plus you have to roll to hit.

Indeed, it seems more and more that Arcane Fire is a waste...

* Energy Immunity - (TaB) lasts 24 hours, you'd be immune to 2 types of energy per day.

* Moment of Prescience - lasts 1/hr level, and those can come in really handy for a wide range of contingencies. With 2/day, you don't have to be shy about using the first one.

* Greater Arcane Sight - this one is awesome, especially against enemy spellcasters... you could see their protection spells and cast the appropriate attack spell from the start. It doesn't last that long so its a good candidate as a spell-like ability 2/day.

Awesome suggestions! I should've indicated that my character is the Weapons of Mass Destruction guy. If there's a big bogey, usually the Fighter and Monk take care of him. There's also a Sorcerer (going DD) that's in constant spell support mode.

If there are multiple targets, I let loose with Firebrand (FR) or Ilajam Fire (FR).

But my defensive capabilities are fairly poor. I usually try to stay out of reach, so these might help me out in that department.

I really liked the fireball 6/day suggestion. Seems to fit your general theme.

The only thing bugging me about that is the damage cap at 10d6. Maybe Firebrand 4/day for an 8th level slot?

Good points. But one does not take Arcane Fire for its "overwhleming" power. One takes it so that his Wizard can prepare alot of utlity spells and then convert them into Arcane Fire if he runs out of combat magic.

Right. Like I mentioned above, I'm the WMD guy, so I very rarely run out of spells. However, with interesting Spell-Like Abilities, I could probably load up on utility, defensive, or buff spells instead .

Andargor

 

[sithramir]

I'd just like to point out that Arcane fire is the best power offered by the class if you ever plan on playing in Epic levels. In most epic combat you either kill the monster in a round or two or you can't beat its SR and you die or have to run.

The choices to beat SR are limited in that you have melfs acid arrow and maze and most others spells require SR. You can give me the "i'll take spell penetration and greater spell penetration and use the ioun stone" bull but if you end up fighting one big monster its SR could easily be 40+ meaning you're almost never going to beat its SR. Arcane fire will go straight through it and also beat its "probably" insane DR as well.

For spell like abilities i'd not waste it on overland flight. Its an hour per level which lasts all day anyways. A better use of it is to use a much higher level slot for a spell you know you'd have memorized in that level. If you know you're always going to have a time stop as one of you're ninth level spells then sacrificing a ninth level slot to get 2/day is worth it.

Some other spells have been pointed out that are useful but i'd avoid the energy immunity spell. Just invest in a few 7th level pearls of power (not cheap but doable and worth it at this level) and use them in the morning on one spell slot and/or keep a spare energy buffer (level 5) memorized in case you're hit with disjunction.

Other useful spell like abilities can be plane shift or teleport or dimension door but its easy to emulate these with 1/day or more items as well.

What I usually do at that level when making plans is I write down everything that could defeat me or prevent me from winning.

IE.
spell resistance
me being stunned
energy damage
critical hits
energy resistances and high saves
unable to use area spells when friends are in melee

Then I choose abilities that will fix this like master of shaping for meteor swarms, etc.


Also, I don't believe you can gain multispell until 24th level based on requirements but I don't have a book to make sure.

 

[andargor]

I'd just like to point out that Arcane fire is the best power offered by the class if you ever plan on playing in Epic levels. In most epic combat you either kill the monster in a round or two or you can't beat its SR and you die or have to run.

Hmm. Interesting point. However, I haven't had much problems beating SR until now. Maybe that will change in Epic. It's just that 9th level slot that annoys me... And the ranged touch attack. My BAB is not going to get much better, and even if it's touch AC, I'm going to have problems.

For spell like abilities i'd not waste it on overland flight. Its an hour per level which lasts all day anyways. A better use of it is to use a much higher level slot for a spell you know you'd have memorized in that level. If you know you're always going to have a time stop as one of you're ninth level spells then sacrificing a ninth level slot to get 2/day is worth it.

So what you are saying is, instead of taking long duration spells that will end up lasting all day anyway with a normal slot, take instead the short duration spells at the highest spell level that I would memorize anyway. There's a certain logic to that, since 9th level slots are scarce.

Some other spells have been pointed out that are useful but i'd avoid the energy immunity spell. Just invest in a few 7th level pearls of power (not cheap but doable and worth it at this level) and use them in the morning on one spell slot and/or keep a spare energy buffer (level 5) memorized in case you're hit with disjunction.

Ah, I knew it would come to items, eventually.

The problem is that we are in a low to mid magic world. There are very few places where we can buy items, and they have very limited stock. Actually, only recently have we found our first place to exchange our useless stock of items for something better, and even then were not able to conclude the deal (long story). The only items my character has are Boots of Levitation, a Ring of Armor +4, a Brooch of Shielding and a Wand of Fireballs, not counting the scrolls he scribed himself.

I would kill for a Pearl, or even a low power Headband of Intellect... I have half a mind of burning mega XP when I get Wish... But I digress...

What I usually do at that level when making plans is I write down everything that could defeat me or prevent me from winning.

IE.
spell resistance
me being stunned
energy damage
critical hits
energy resistances and high saves
unable to use area spells when friends are in melee

Then I choose abilities that will fix this like master of shaping for meteor swarms, etc.

When I hit 10th ES, I get immunity to fire, stunning, paralysis, poison, flanking and critical hits. Vulnerability to cold will be a problem, that's why Energy Immunity is interesting. I daily cast Energy Buffer and False Life. I have Contingency: Stoneskin running all the time.

The Moment of Prescience suggestion is really great. Allows me to avoid those "bad luck" rolls.

Also, I don't believe you can gain multispell until 24th level based on requirements but I don't have a book to make sure.

The prerequisites are "Quicken Spell, ability to cast 9th-level arcane or divine spells".

Andargor

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'd assume that the descriptor changes as well. A sonic Fireball would have the [Sonic] descriptor. It simply doesn't make sense any other way.

Mind you, a Sonic wall of fire would still set light to things!?!... IMO the whole energy substitution thing is a nonsense because they didn't bother to think through a unified set of side effects for different energy types. It didn't matter before someone came up with the idea of "energy substitution", but once they did (FR archmage, T&B, 3.5e archmage) it highlighted the inadequacies of the system.

The Elements of Magic from Natural 20 Press (or is it ENworld publishing now?) did actually think it through, which was nice.

Cheers

 

[Brekki]

The feat is "Multispel [EPIC]" so you can't take it until you can take an epic feat.

(su) Arcane Reach is also good ... through the use of this ability you can use the "chain spell" feat with touch spells

But then again ... my archmages all walk around in shapechange all day, so this only works if you don't plan on doing that

 

[Dthamilaye]

Arcane fire is the best ability of the Archmage. I DM for 5 players of character level 19-20 and the arcane fire is definitely been excellent for the main caster (Feyri sorcerer).

(Note: I did not find any reason why sorcerer could not use 1-9th lvl spell slots for powering the Arcane fire. IMHO "...plus 1d6 points of damage per level of the spell used to create the effect" does not mean memorized spells, but any spells that can be cast. Ie, "spells" mean here "memorized spells or memorized slots". I don't know if this is house rule, but I do not consider it such until I see official (Book/FAQ/Errata) source saying otherwise)

So, the bad things about Arcane fire:
-Cannot be (easily) metamagiced.
-Damage not massive. (But ok for high level spells, max 14d6)
-Ranged touch attack (remember though, you can crit too for double damage)

Good things:
-(Su) ability. Supernatural means:
--NO vocal, somatic or material components -> Can cast this even when Hold or Paralyzed. No need to make sound either.
--NO attack of opportunity if cast near a monster.
--NO Spell Resistance. This is big plus anywhere and only becomes better in epic play. Also, the caster in my game was SO happy to be effective against all GOLEMs again. As 3.5 'magic immunity' now usually does NOT affect (Su) abilities, Arcane fire affects all 'immune' mobs without problems.
-long range
-NOT a normal energy form. Ie, NO energy immunity or resistance helps against Arcane fire.
-NO save.
-NO counterspelling


This means that no matter what the monster is, if you can make the RTA and succeed, Arcane fire is about bullet-proof way to make damage. I haven't found ways to counter it yet outside of full Antimagic field or area.

Now, when you look at the normal monsters in CR16+ range, and in Epic handbook, the touch ac is usually very low. IMC, the sorcerer hits usually with anything else except natural 1. Of course, mirror images and displacements do hinder the RTA, but True seeing is basic spell or ability in some form for any 17th+ caster.
Of course, if you REALLY need that hit, consider True Strike or Moment of Prescience.

If you don't know if you want Arcane fire yet, just leave the 5th Archmage level waiting for some epic levels to see if you would need it. It's not like you need to take all prestige class levels in a row.

In short: I have not yet found a better way to make so sure damage with magic. If all else fails, Arcane fire usually still is going strong. No matter the AC or SR or saves of the monster.

 

[mikebr99]

And don't forget to take the Extra Slot feat from T&B to get back some of those dearly missed slots to power AM stuff...



Mike

 

[Sir Whiskers]

But then again ... my archmages all walk around in shapechange all day, so this only works if you don't plan on doing that

Hijack alert//

What form do you typically walk around in? I considered taking shapechange for my sorcerer, but 3.5 whittled the power of the spell sufficiently, I didn't bother. Just looking for ideas. Thanks.

hijack off//

So, the bad things about Arcane fire:
-Cannot be (easily) metamagiced.
-Damage not massive. (But ok for high level spells, max 14d6)
-Ranged touch attack (remember though, you can crit too for double damage)

Good things:
-(Su) ability. Supernatural means:
--NO vocal, somatic or material components -> Can cast this even when Hold or Paralyzed. No need to make sound either.
--NO attack of opportunity if cast near a monster.
--NO Spell Resistance. This is big plus anywhere and only becomes better in epic play. Also, the caster in my game was SO happy to be effective against all GOLEMs again. As 3.5 'magic immunity' now usually does NOT affect (Su) abilities, Arcane fire affects all 'immune' mobs without problems.
-long range
-NOT a normal energy form. Ie, NO energy immunity or resistance helps against Arcane fire.
-NO save.
-NO counterspelling

Gotta admit, arcane fire looks better and better.

 

[mikebr99]

Hijack alert//

What form do you typically walk around in? I considered taking shapechange for my sorcerer, but 3.5 whittled the power of the spell sufficiently, I didn't bother. Just looking for ideas. Thanks.

hijack off//

Huh??? You now get full use of the STR, DEX, & CON (ie. most likely more hps) of the creature you change into.

Trolls... Giants... etc.


Mike

 

[apsuman]

Arcane fire is the best ability of the Archmage. I DM for 5 players of character level 19-20 and the arcane fire is definitely been excellent for the main caster (Feyri sorcerer).

(Note: I did not find any reason why sorcerer could not use 1-9th lvl spell slots for powering the Arcane fire. IMHO "...plus 1d6 points of damage per level of the spell used to create the effect" does not mean memorized spells, but any spells that can be cast. Ie, "spells" mean here "memorized spells or memorized slots". I don't know if this is house rule, but I do not consider it such until I see official (Book/FAQ/Errata) source saying otherwise)

So, the bad things about Arcane fire:
-Cannot be (easily) metamagiced.
-Damage not massive. (But ok for high level spells, max 14d6)
-Ranged touch attack (remember though, you can crit too for double damage)

Two things

First, As I understand Arcane Fire: The character has to permanently lose one ninth level spell slot to acquire this feature. For the cost of that spell slot, however, a wizard character can say I know I memorized Ray of frost in a level zero slot but instead I will use that spell to power a level zero arcane fire bolt, and do 0d6 + 1d6 for each archmage level. Since the sorcerer does not have to memorize spells he simply decides in the moment that he will take any onf of his level (fill in the blank) spell slots and instead use arcane fire. I think this is what you are saying in your post but I am unsure.

Second:

What the #$%^! do you mean that arcane fire is not (easily) metamagiced?

I know of no way to make arcane fire metamagiced. Please explain this whole "(easily)" thing.