OGL Going Nuclear:1D&D

So, everyone who is perfect, who has never screwed up in their lives, raise your hand.

Folks will joke, but I suspect you'll see few raised hands in the crowd. So, when they screwed up, did all their friends, the people with whom they have supportive relationships over decades, abandon them?

If what they did was bad enough, perhaps. But frequently, the people who have had good relationships in the past will at least wait until they see exactly what you have done before completely writing you off.

WotC created the OGL in the first place. They have made missteps, but then also made good steps. Many, indeed millions, have benefited from WotC's products and actions in the past. So, it should not be surprising that some folks are at the very least wiling to wait until we see what actual license gets released.

I'm all for waiting to see the license or how wotc responds. But I think this analogy doesn't work because your friends are people, part of your social community, and wotc is a corporation, an legal entity that exists to sell you stuff. Granted some fraction of the fanbase may have had personal interactions with some of the designers over the years, but current criticism of wotc is not about those individuals, but about the larger corporate entity. Regardless of what conclusion you come to about buying 1dnd, I think it's healthy to not treat wotc as a friend in a mutually supportive relationship, because it's not that.
 

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Michael Linke

Adventurer
So, everyone who is perfect, who has never screwed up in their lives, raise your hand.

Folks will joke, but I suspect you'll see few raised hands in the crowd. So, when they screwed up, did all their friends, the people with whom they have supportive relationships over decades, abandon them?

If what they did was bad enough, perhaps. But frequently, the people who have had good relationships in the past will at least wait until they see exactly what you have done before completely writing you off.

WotC created the OGL in the first place. They have made missteps, but then also made good steps. Many, indeed millions, have benefited from WotC's products and actions in the past. So, it should not be surprising that some folks are at the very least wiling to wait until we see what actual license gets released.
Don't cry because it (the OGL) is over, smile because it happened. :D
 



Michael Linke

Adventurer
I really don't understand how people can talk about "going nuclear" and burning D&D and all of its branding to the ground over this. I'm really sorry you're so invested in the OGL that like... my life's passion needs to fade into obscurity to satisfy your vendetta. Like I should just go back to the pre-2010 status quo of people assuming I'm either an amoral deviant or completely antisocial weirdo for loving a game in order to satisfy your made up definition of justice. Like channel that passion at one of the actual injustices going on in the world today, and stop pretending anything at all Hasbro is capable of will ever warrant such extreme rhetoric in response.

Btw, are there any threads you can direct me to where people are chiming in on which OGL content they've recently panic bought before the possibly impending doomsday?
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I really don't understand how people can talk about "going nuclear" and burning D&D and all of its branding to the ground over this. I'm really sorry you're so invested in the OGL that like... my life's passion needs to fade into obscurity to satisfy your vendetta. Like I should just go back to the pre-2010 status quo of people assuming I'm either an amoral deviant or completely antisocial weirdo for loving a game in order to satisfy your made up definition of justice. Like channel that passion at one of the actual injustices going on in the world today, and stop pretending anything at all Hasbro is capable of will ever warrant such extreme rhetoric in response.

Btw, are there any threads you can direct me to where people are chiming in on which OGL content they've recently panic bought before the possibly impending doomsday?

Company annoys me bad enough I cut them off.

I own a grand total of 4 4E books, one if them was a gift.

Another example in 2009 iirc Cadbury chocolate was taking over in a hostile takeover by an American company.

They altered the product to make it cheaper and ended up closing the local factory.

I knew a guy who worked at that factory and he said they lost around 2/3rds market share practically over night.

And since then I would like to say I've bought 0 product buy I think I have bought a couple of bars just to test out "new recipes".

So reliable customer to $10 maybe in 14 years.

They changed the taste. Fire and Blood.
 
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Daztur

Adventurer
So, everyone who is perfect, who has never screwed up in their lives, raise your hand.

Folks will joke, but I suspect you'll see few raised hands in the crowd. So, when they screwed up, did all their friends, the people with whom they have supportive relationships over decades, abandon them?

If what they did was bad enough, perhaps. But frequently, the people who have had good relationships in the past will at least wait until they see exactly what you have done before completely writing you off.

WotC created the OGL in the first place. They have made missteps, but then also made good steps. Many, indeed millions, have benefited from WotC's products and actions in the past. So, it should not be surprising that some folks are at the very least wiling to wait until we see what actual license gets released.

WotC isn't a person. The person who made the OGL is long gone from WotC and the person who decided to deep six the OGL is some corporate suit who doesn't know the first thing about D&D and who hasn't done anything for me in his life. So zero reason to give them any benefit of the doubt or any gratitude. Also zero reason to hold any grudge against WotC writ large if the people who decided to do this aren't working at WotC in the future and people with better sense are making decisions for D&D.

I really don't understand how people can talk about "going nuclear" and burning D&D and all of its branding to the ground over this. I'm really sorry you're so invested in the OGL that like... my life's passion needs to fade into obscurity to satisfy your vendetta. Like I should just go back to the pre-2010 status quo of people assuming I'm either an amoral deviant or completely antisocial weirdo for loving a game in order to satisfy your made up definition of justice. Like channel that passion at one of the actual injustices going on in the world today, and stop pretending anything at all Hasbro is capable of will ever warrant such extreme rhetoric in response.

Btw, are there any threads you can direct me to where people are chiming in on which OGL content they've recently panic bought before the possibly impending doomsday?

Am I going to stop playing D&D/I Can't Believe It's Not D&D with my friend over this? Of course not. Am I going to boycott Hasbro over this. Most definitely.
 

I really don't understand how people can talk about "going nuclear" and burning D&D and all of its branding to the ground over this. I'm really sorry you're so invested in the OGL that like... my life's passion needs to fade into obscurity to satisfy your vendetta.
I would agree that I don't know what "going nuclear" means in this context. I think it just means not buying stuff from wotc if you don't like they way they are conducting their business. Likewise, no one is who is so-criticizing wotc is able to make your "life's passion...fade into obscurity." That's equally hyperbolic.

In fact, the only things that will be 'fading into obscurity' will be those products that relied on the OGL. For example, my favorite OSR game, Whitehack 3e, has paused sales, and my other favorite game/company, Old School Essentials by Necrotic Gnome, has a much anticipated kickstarter in the works that is in jeopardy. Hopefully they'll figure out a way around the OGL. Nevertheless, you can remain blissfully unaware of the existence of these and many other 3pp and free to keep playing your official wotc-approved version of dnd, aka your "life's passion."
 

Michael Linke

Adventurer
Company annoys me bad enough I cut them off.

I own a grand total of 4 4E books, one if them was a gift.

Another example in 2009 iirc Cadbury chocolate was taking over in a hostile takeover by an American company.

They altered the product to make it cheaper and ended up clisingvthe local factory.

I knew a guy who worked at that factory and he said they list around 2/3rds market share practically over night.

And since then I would like to say I've bought 0 product buy I think I have bought a couple of bars just to test out "new recipes".

So reliable customer to $10 maybe in 14 years.

They changed the taste. Fire and Blood.
So imagine your buddy at the Cadbury plant lost his job not because the company screwed up the recipe, but instead lost business to a boycott launched because it had announced that the free ice cream it gave out was no longer “all you can eat” and had been downgraded to “an appropriate amount of free ice cream”.

It’s really gross that on one browser tab I’m listening to a CNN report about 600 soldiers a day being killed in a battle in a war that never should have started, and in another tab people think activism is organizing a boycott because the previously free thing their games publishing companies needs to function might not stay free for ever.

There was a way to talk about this OGL change that could change minds and get sympathy from casuals, and you’re just choosing to talk about it in the creepiest most aggressive and maximalist terms possible.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
So imagine your buddy at the Cadbury plant lost his job not because the company screwed up the recipe, but instead lost business to a boycott launched because it had announced that the free ice cream it gave out was no longer “all you can eat” and had been downgraded to “an appropriate amount of free ice cream”.

It’s really gross that on one browser tab I’m listening to a CNN report about 600 soldiers a day being killed in a battle in a war that never should have started, and in another tab people think activism is organizing a boycott because the previously free thing their games publishing companies needs to function might not stay free for ever.

There was a way to talk about this OGL change that could change minds and get sympathy from casuals, and you’re just choosing to talk about it in the creepiest most aggressive and maximalist terms possible.

Can't do much about a war. I can do stuff about D&D changes. Fans sunk one edition can do it again.
 

Irlo

Hero
“Going nuclear” is a common colloquial phrase, known by those who use that phrase as obvious hyperbole. No one — absolutely no one — thinks that the revocation of the OGL is an equivalent injustice to war. People can respond to various things in the world, not just the worst thing.
 

It’s really gross that on one browser tab I’m listening to a CNN report about 600 soldiers a day being killed in a battle in a war that never should have started, and in another tab people think activism is organizing a boycott because the previously free thing their games publishing companies needs to function might not stay free for ever.
Again, I agree that a phrase like "going nuclear" is glib and unhelpful, but a consumer boycott is not an unreasonable or uncommon strategy for consumer activism. And reference to a more serious subject matter is not a relevant response to the concerns in this thread.

 


Michael Linke

Adventurer
Can't do much about a war. I can do stuff about D&D changes. Fans sunk one edition can do it again.
I don't actually believe that fan backlash ended 4e. It certainly had a lot to do with Paizo's rise in popularity, but I don't think 4e would have lasted the years it did if fan backlash were primary concern. I think the end of 4e had more to do with the degree to which the core mechanics of the 4th edition system was prone to issues needing frequent errata.
 

Michael Linke

Adventurer
Again, I agree that a phrase like "going nuclear" is glib and unhelpful, but a consumer boycott is not an unreasonable or uncommon strategy for consumer activism. And reference to a more serious subject matter is not a relevant response to the concerns in this thread.

Whataboutism would be if I said "why boycott Hasbro when what Blizzard did is just as bad?" An accusation that trivial matters are exaggerated in importance, and that passion to right wrongs can be better channeled elsewhere entirely isn't "whataboutism".
 

Micah Sweet

Legend
I really don't understand how people can talk about "going nuclear" and burning D&D and all of its branding to the ground over this. I'm really sorry you're so invested in the OGL that like... my life's passion needs to fade into obscurity to satisfy your vendetta. Like I should just go back to the pre-2010 status quo of people assuming I'm either an amoral deviant or completely antisocial weirdo for loving a game in order to satisfy your made up definition of justice. Like channel that passion at one of the actual injustices going on in the world today, and stop pretending anything at all Hasbro is capable of will ever warrant such extreme rhetoric in response.

Btw, are there any threads you can direct me to where people are chiming in on which OGL content they've recently panic bought before the possibly impending doomsday?
Your life's passion, I suspect, is not WotC, but rather the game whose IP they currently own. I understand, and feel similarly. But no matter what happens to them, you can still play Dungeons and Dragons.
 

I really don't understand how people can talk about "going nuclear" and burning D&D and all of its branding to the ground over this. I'm really sorry you're so invested in the OGL that like... my life's passion needs to fade into obscurity to satisfy your vendetta. Like I should just go back to the pre-2010 status quo of people assuming I'm either an amoral deviant or completely antisocial weirdo for loving a game in order to satisfy your made up definition of justice. Like channel that passion at one of the actual injustices going on in the world today, and stop pretending anything at all Hasbro is capable of will ever warrant such extreme rhetoric in response.

Btw, are there any threads you can direct me to where people are chiming in on which OGL content they've recently panic bought before the possibly impending doomsday?
So if it impacts you personally, we should care? But if it jeopardizes the livelihood of many people in the industry we shouldn't care? That's certainly some interesting logic.
 

Whataboutism would be if I said "why boycott Hasbro when what Blizzard did is just as bad?" An accusation that trivial matters are exaggerated in importance, and that passion to right wrongs can be better channeled elsewhere entirely isn't "whataboutism".
Telling people they shouldn't be concerned or interested in dnd because there is a war going on in Ukraine is dismissive and irrelevant. I mean, what are we all doing as adults, playing games?! Shouldn't our free time be directed to something more useful, as decided by you? You could easily assume that your interlocutors here are whole people just like you, and are concerned about both world events and their particular hobby, among many other things.

And, unlike controversies around Ravenloft lore or Kender abilities, these discussions about monopolistic practices are much more relevant to broader concerns about the way our political economy and legal systems are structured and whether that benefits consumers or corporations.
 



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