OGL Going Nuclear:1D&D

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Mod Note 2nd:

Can the inflammatory purple prose while we’re at it. This is a touchy subject for all concerned and verifiable information is still at a minimum. Continued use of overheated rhetoric will probably result in moderation responses.
 

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halfling rogue

Explorer
So, everyone who is perfect, who has never screwed up in their lives, raise your hand.

Folks will joke, but I suspect you'll see few raised hands in the crowd. So, when they screwed up, did all their friends, the people with whom they have supportive relationships over decades, abandon them?

If what they did was bad enough, perhaps. But frequently, the people who have had good relationships in the past will at least wait until they see exactly what you have done before completely writing you off.

WotC created the OGL in the first place. They have made missteps, but then also made good steps. Many, indeed millions, have benefited from WotC's products and actions in the past. So, it should not be surprising that some folks are at the very least wiling to wait until we see what actual license gets released.
That's such a weird take. I mean, you do you and wait and see. I don't care. But I also don't think of WotC as person.

The only relationship I have with WotC is when I decide to purchase something they make. Through company statements and decisions made with their product, they've signaled their distaste for people like me (that's all I'll say about that here, but it's true), and what's maybe worse is that they've signaled their distaste because they think it would benefit their image, thus their bottom dollar.

So I decided in 2019 that I'd rather not give money to people who hate me. Seeing where their greed has led them and all the righteous indignation and all the people jumping ship now is not surprising, and I'll readily admit that I find it all a bit enjoyable.
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
But I also don't think of WotC as person.

....

So I decided in 2019 that I'd rather not give money to people who hate me.

But, you just said WotC is not a person. They don't know you. They cannot hate you.

Indeed, "hate" is probably a completely inappropriate word here. They are more likely completely apathetic to you, the the same way as an avalance is apathetic to skiers on the slopes...
 


They are more likely completely apathetic to you, the the same way as an avalance is apathetic to skiers on the slopes...
isn't that one of the things that Lovecraftian stories use to drive people mad? Yes there is an all powerful (to you) might as well be a god... but it doesn't love you, and it doesn't hate you... nothing you do effects it, and it will never consider you at all.
 


TheSword

Legend
The anti-corporation rhetoric is really wearing thin. As someone who works for a large company that genuinely tries to look after people and treat its team well the idea that all companies above a certain size are ruled by the Sith grinds my gears.

90% of companies no matter how big, are trying to turn a profit by fulfilling a need. While being value for money and ideally controlling costs.

There is nothing more or less wicked about WotC than Kobald Press. You just happen to have a closer relationship to them because they’re smaller. KP aren’t a charity, they’re still trying to make a profit by fulfilling a need. It was only six months ago that Paizo were the evil overlords. Now they you’re asking them to be the standard bearers of an OGL revolution.

WOTC is full of gamers, the idea that they aren’t people because you don’t know them is ridiculous. Some of them have just made a strategic decision about their business and that decision disadvantages some people in the commmunity.

I understand people working in the segments that are disadvantaged being upset, even angry about it. When this decision affects the dollars in their pocket nobody wants higher costs and less certainty. I’m sure it’s not personal though and those people are just trying to do the best for their company, their shareholders and need they’re trying to fill in the community. As someone for whom the possibility of being sold off and/or being made redundant is always possible I struggle to understand the level of fury about something that is just par for the course in business.

In the OGL debate people seem to want certainty - for ever - for free. I’m sorry to say that just isn’t how the world works.
 
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Michael Linke

Adventurer
What 'need' is this move filling for the community?

Stability of the D&D brand, and a realigning of "who" benefits from the OGL away from big companies like Paizo, and back toward small teams and solo developers? You can argue about whether the community needs or wants those things, but I can see an angle to what WotC is doing that "does not attribute to malice that which can adequately explained by [ineptitude]".
 

Stability of the D&D brand, and a realigning of "who" benefits from the OGL away from big companies like Paizo, and back toward small teams and solo developers? You can argue about whether the community needs or wants those things, but I can see an angle to what WotC is doing that "does not attribute to malice that which can adequately explained by [ineptitude]".
And how has the OGL caused instability in the brand? Last I checked the brand is the healthiest it has ever been with the OGL/SRD in place for the most recent edition.
 




halfling rogue

Explorer
But, you just said WotC is not a person. They don't know you. They cannot hate you.

Indeed, "hate" is probably a completely inappropriate word here. They are more likely completely apathetic to you, the the same way as an avalance is apathetic to skiers on the slopes...
There is no flag on the play. The adage "Don't give money to people who hate you" applies, even if WotC is a corporation.

In order to avoid the politics alarms round here, let's just chalk it up to WotC adopting an ideology (regardless of why) that is in conflict with my own. Statements and actions from them have affirmed it. We don't need to go further regarding all that. It is what it is.

However, on the relationship aspect, it is purely transactional. They don't owe me anything and I'm not obliged in any way to support them. If my house falls, they are free to giggle or not care. Likewise, I can look upon their demise guilt free. That they went out of their way to push people like me away from their products provides me with the opportunity to look upon their demise with ironic glee.

In fact, I think it is downright hilarious.
 




Bluebell

Explorer
I understand people working in the segments that are disadvantaged being upset, even angry about it. When this decision affects the dollars in their pocket nobody wants higher costs and less certainty. I’m sure it’s not personal though and those people are just trying to do the best for their company, their shareholders and need they’re trying to fill in the community. As someone for whom the possibility of being sold off and/or being made redundant is always possible I struggle to understand the level of fury about something that is just par for the course in business.
I don't really care if it's personal or not. People aren't out here complaining that Hasbro hurt their feelings. I also don't really care whether they are "doing their best." I don't know what's in their hearts, I just know their actions.

Whether or not corporations as a whole are bad isn't really the issue, either. This isn't a generalized topic. We're talking about one specific corporation and their specific decision-making. They would not have the broad reach that they have if they weren't a large corporation. They likely also would not be making the decisions they are currently making if they weren't a large corporation. Their size and their structure isn't something we can ignore when we talk about this specific topic.

As consumers, we are not beholden to shareholders. We don't owe them allegiance. We can choose to spend elsewhere. The bigger question is whether we, as hobbyists, want our community to be so easily upturned by one corporation.
 

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