Going Nuclear:1D&D

[Charlaquin]

Fate is the one I don't ever remember to look into but isn't that 2d6 not d20?

Might be, I haven’t actually played it. But the relevant detail is that it’s published under the OGL.

 

[Michael Linke]

Fate is the one I don't ever remember to look into but isn't that 2d6 not d20?
Mutants and Masterminds I wonder if they could roll with another edition change to remove the bits of D&D left after taking stats down from3-18 to -1 to +5 I am not sure they even have AC anymore.

Fate in no way resembles any edition of D&D. You roll six-sided dice with + and - signs on them, and you're totally a net positive or net negative result.

 

[Shardstone]

Lots of fanciful and some rude ideas in this thread.

Hasbro won. There's no way a bunch of grognards and a handful of older Millennials can have a boycotting campaign against international Hasbro. Hasbro is able to revoke the OGL specifically because it doesn't need it anymore. For those of us like myself, who are young and just jumped into the 3PP studio space, this is an unmitigated disaster with no easy answer. For the vast majority of D&D's audience, however, this means literally nothing.

Tiktok won't care. Not frfr. Insta won't care. The news won't care for too long. This'll all blow past, some companies will have a unique deal, some companies will fight back, but in the end, Hasbro has won. That's all there is to it.

Maybe the revocation will be proven false in court 1-4 years from now. Doesn't matter, that's 1-4 years smaller studios like myself are destroyed in. Maybe this causes 1D&D to crash and a new D&D with a new OGL pops up. Doesn't matter that'll take at least 3-5 years minimum, long enough for smaller studios to still die.

Even if they walk it back, you'd have to be "too big to fail" to risk staying in, and it'd be a huge risk since WotC have now shown their true colors.

3PP/Indie D&D ends with a largely uncaring whimper. As it goes.

 

[Random Task]

Hypothetically, sure, and as mentioned previously, there are some non-OGL games that use such a mechanic. But the fact of the matter is that the majority of d20-based games are published under the OGL, and if it went away would likely either have to shut down, or be significantly re-worked. So, again, if you like Pathfinder, M&M, SWSE, FATE, d20 Modern, OSE, or most other d20-based games, you should care about the OGL because their existence relies on it.

I think the games that need WOTC SRD and IP are clearly more affected than others (like Pathfinder). For instance I'm not sure why FATE is on the OGL at all, it's probably just for use as a license for others to publish FATE products, because I'm not sure what they're taking from WOTC D&D properties.

What about mechanics that are intrinsically tied to a narrative element, like rules for darkness, light, and vision? Is dwarves being able to see in the dark a game mechanic?

There are plenty of non-OGL games that are much older than the OGL that have those tropes, so I doubt you'd be able to do much with those kinds of narrative elements.

 

[Michael Linke]

My understanding after a quick read is that Fate publishes under the OGL only as a way of allowing other publishers to create third party supporting products for Fate. Fate itself doesn't need the OGL, and doesn't derive anything from D&D or any SRD. If the OGL stopped working the way wanted it to, they could come up with an alternative license to empower companies that want to keep making Fate compatible material.

 

[Waller]

Might be, I haven’t actually played it. But the relevant detail is that it’s published under the OGL.

No, the Fate System Reference Document is shared using the OGL (and CC). An important distinction. There's no OGL in the actual Fate rulebook. It's not published under the OGL.

 

[Charlaquin]

I think the games that need WOTC SRD and IP are clearly more effected than others (like Pathfinder). For instance I'm not sure why FATE is on the OGL at all, it's probably just for use as a license for others to publish FATE products, because I'm not sure what they're taking from WOTC D&D properties.

Often, it’s just to cover the bases. If you’re doing something that looks kinda, sorta D&D-ish in some way, it’s often safer to just use the OGL to be safe. Or at least, that has been the case.

There are plenty of non-OGL games that are much older than the OGL that have those tropes, so I doubt you'd be able to do much with those kinds of narrative elements.

They were just examples. Point is, the old chestnut that “you can’t copyright game mechanics” isn’t the ironclad defense a lot of people think it is, because there is no legal precedent for where game mechanics ends and presentation begins in the context of RPGs, where the mechanics and the narrative are often tightly linked together. Without the OGL, it becomes a huge risk to publish anything that might look a bit like D&D to a judge who has never played an RPG in their life. And that pretty much means if you like any fantasy roleplaying games that aren’t D&D, or any d20-based non-fantasy RPGs, chances are there’s a game you like that wouldn’t exist without the OGL.

 

[Charlaquin]

No, the Fate System Reference Document is shared using the OGL (and CC). An important distinction. There's no OGL in the actual Fate rulebook. It's not published under the OGL.

Alright, my mistake I guess. My actual argument still stands.

 

[Malmuria]

Do you only ever listen to your favorite song? Do you only ever eat your favorite food? What kind of question is that? What are you trying to prove?

Yeah variety is key. That’s why I enjoy 3p content and a variety of games. I also like b/x—in fact I’ve been running an Old School Essentials campaign using b/x compatible osr adventures. They use the ogl. If wotc asserts a monopolistic position, all that variety is at the risk of going away. And then, when it comes to dnd, you really will only be listening to the same song and eating the same food.

 

[Charlaquin]

There's no way a bunch of grognards and a handful of older Millennials can have a boycotting campaign against international Hasbro.

Not with that attitude, anyway!

In all seriousness though, while you’re probably right, using “not enough people will participate in the boycott for it to be successful” as a reason not to participate in a boycott is a lot like not voting because you don’t think your candidate is going to win anyway. It’s contributing to the very problem that it’s using to justify itself. Will me refusing to buy WotC products actually hurt WotC in any measurable way? No, probably not. But I sure as hell don’t want to be one of the people helping WotC.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Fate in no way resembles any edition of D&D. You roll six-sided dice with + and - signs on them, and you're totally a net positive or net negative result.

thank you... that and Fudge are game I always say I am going to read and try and then don't for no reason...

 

[Stormonu]

@Shardstone - Hasbro hasn't "won" any more than Sony did during the PSP2 to 3 switch. If they have cut out 3pp players, all their doing is shooting themselves in the foot the way Atari did back with the 2600 and Nintendo did with the NES when they tried to reign in 3pp.

 

[Random Task]

@Shardstone - Hasbro hasn't "won" any more than Sony did during the PSP2 to 3 switch. If they have cut out 3pp players, all their doing is shooting themselves in the foot the way Atari did back with the 2600 and Nintendo did with the NES when they tried to reign in 3pp.

Apple definitely won reining in the Power PC clone era.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Stranger things and Big Bang theory and any other 'nerd' exposure needs to choose to make a fake TTRPG or take D&D if they want to communicate that through nerdom... because nobody would get "Tonight is Rifts night"

Don't underestimate how much pop culture can teach people about things and influence demand.

Big Bang Theory had an episode where they played an MtG knockoff. The fans tried to find out what the game was, and when they learned it didn't exist they made one.

If they had an episode about Rifts, more people would have known about Rifts.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Don't underestimate how much pop culture can teach people about things and influence demand.

Big Bang Theory had an episode where they played an MtG knockoff. The fans tried to find out what the game was, and when they learned it didn't exist they made one.

If they had an episode about Rifts, more people would have known about Rifts.

Yes but we the players need to get Rifts to the writers rooms attention... that is why I say pick another game and go full hog salesman mode telling everyone it's the greatest new nerd thing.

(again it doesn't have to be rifts but I wouldn't mind if it was)

 

[Scribe]

Well, I ended up buying a PF book. There's little we can do but make noise against the behavior we dont like, and support other companies.

 

[Nefermandias]

I tried, a while back. It didn't end up going very well (I suspect just some personality mismatch with some of the players.) We got through a single adventure and then didn't meet back up again.

For me there's also the problem that 4e isn't really good to be played online, contrary to what most people believe. It's so much easier to play 5e if you're going to use a VTT.

Physical minis+dungeon tiles+power cards is the way to go.

 

[Composer99]

Can't say that's been my experience, but I have a DM with a subscription to roll20 and we've been aggressive about macros for our powers, so fair enough!

Apropos of the real topic, I'ma go buy a PF2 book - core rules probably - from my FLGS on Tuesday (they're closed Mondays).

 

[Charlaquin]

For me there's also the problem that 4e isn't really good to be played online, contrary to what most people believe. It's so much easier to play 5e if you're going to use a VTT.

Physical minis+dungeon tiles+power cards is the way to go.

For real! For all the accusations of it being videogamey, 4e is way harder to play virtually than in-person with battle mat and tokens!

 

[Zardnaar]

For real! For all the accusations of it being videogamey, 4e is way harder to play virtually than in-person with battle mat and tokens!

I thought it was an advanced form of the old D&D miniatures game.

Has some influence I suppose from video games eg encounter powers are essentially cooldowns.

Apart from that ...