Good-Flavored Evil?

[jasin]

Actually, most undead, not possessing the (Evil) subtype, or any subtype, do not register as any alignment except their own.

Detect evil table lists five categories of stuff that it detects: evil creature, undead, evil outsider, cleric of an evil deity, evil magic item or spell. Now, this may well be simply because there are no non-evil undead in the core books (right?), but my reading was that undead inherently possess an evil aura, simply because they're undead, not just because they're actually evil.

 

[Gez]

Actually, most undead, not possessing the (Evil) subtype, or any subtype, do not register as any alignment except their own. If one is good aligned, it would register only as good.

What Jasin said. Detect evil is not a fair spell. A neutral cleric of an evil deity but not actually devoted to evil causes (emphasising instead the other elements of the god's portfolio) would seem more evil than a fiend-worshipping psychopathic serial murderer who is not a cleric or blackguard.

The detect evil spell says undead register as evil. It's not even a question of "all undead in the core rules are evil, that's why", since this was already there before the revised edition and mindless undead are neutral, not evil, in 3e.

ALL undead register as evil. They also register as their own alignment if different.

The situation would be different if you used the 2e spell "detect alignment", though.

 

[phindar]

Edit: Beaten to the punch again. My obsessive need to spell check slows me down.

 

[Gez]

The Detect Evil table is to determine the strength of of the Evil. Undead have a particular potency to their evil aura, but you aren't going to pick up a Lawful Good ghost with a Detect Evil, because their is no evil to detect. I could explain that better, but its six in the morning.

Look better at that table:

Evil creatures (other than undead and outsiders)
Evil outsiders
Evil magic item or spell
<the space you are looking at is the ABSENCE of the word "evil"> undead
<the space you are looking at is the ABSENCE of the word "evil"> cleric of an evil deity

As I said, neutral cleric of evil god, neutral or good undead, they all register on detect evil.

If your argument was valid, then we wouldn't have the "evil" precision repeated for creatures, outsiders, and magic.

Now, let's take a second look at the numbers given: compare the undead's numbers with the other entries. See which one do they match? The undead's evil aura is actually that of the foul undeath magic sustaining them.


Oh, stealth-edit! But I was faster than you!

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I'd say this depends entirely on the DM's concept of undeath and how he will rule on the question. If he rules that undeath, because of the tie to negative energy, is inherently evil and corrupting, regardless of the intent and efforts of the character, then it could be a problem for the paladin. If he rules that the fact of the undeath doesn't matter, and alignment is based purely on intent and behavior, then it's not an issue at all. I agree with others who have said that a positive energy mummy would sidestep the "undeath" issue.

On the other hand, there are some cool role-playing opportunities with the "undeath is inherently evil" approach. You have a situation where the mummy wants to be good and tries to be good, but can never completely overcome his basic, corrupt nature (kind of like the massa damnata concept). Much would then depend on the players, the DM, and the fantasy theology regarding morality/sin/alignment. That could be really cool, or really, really frustrating. Everyone would have to be both on-board (i.e. willing to try it out) and also hopefully share an understanding of the "fantasy moral theory" for it to work well.

 

[avigor]

BoED really annoyed me.

Yeah, I must say I agree with you here. Sometimes I find myself thinking the following, and then read the BoED or whatever and get confused; seems to me like they still want to mix law vs. chaos into good vs. evil. Please excuse the branching into an alignment debate:


Good vs. Evil is about goals and ends and intent.

Law vs. Chaos is about methods and means and how you go about your fullfilling your intent.



And then there's the debate about whether a lawful individual must follow the laws of society, or whether law vs. chaos is simply whether or not the person has concrete laws that he follows, regardless of what they actually are. I'd say the latter, but then I also read the PHB descriptions of law vs. chaos and find that I also dislike some of what that seems to imply to me. It seems like working with others would not really be a part of it.

To me, law vs. chaos could be more accurately described as means vs. ends, and how much you like society would depend on some sort of a tolerance attribute (maybe a combination of wisdom and charisma?). Means people like to follow rules set down by those who are "wiser" then them, often someone dead who they can't ask for clarification. Ends people just care about what they intend to do and not how they do it. Neutral people see most debates here to be less than of paramount importance, following some rules but seeing others as foolish to follow blindly and completely; lying to an evil lich is okay, but lying to your good friend probably wouldn't be.

 

[Gez]

Good vs. Evil is about goals and ends and intent.

Law vs. Chaos is about methods and means and how you go about your fullfilling your intent.

Uh... How would you qualify someone pushing a lawful or chaotic agenda? And if your chaotic people are about how the ends are more important than the means, won't they fall into the evil trap that is thinking the ends justify the means? ("Here, I saved your child from the flames." "You tossed him out the window! Why couldn't you carry him down? He's dead!" "Maybe, but not in the blaze, so don't complain. And if I had carried him, then I couldn't have looted all that stuff before it burned.")

Nah, I don't agree. In fact, I'd more easily see the reverse.

 

[Li Shenron]

Good vs. Evil is about goals and ends and intent.

Law vs. Chaos is about methods and means and how you go about your fullfilling your intent.

I think it's exactly the opposite.

 

[Merkuri]

Whether or not it works will ultimately depend on the paladin player, but if you have your Mummy follow the same god as the paladin (assuming he has a god) that should give the paladin some pause. Have your mummy carry some obvious symbol of the paladin's god when they first meet.

 

[Particle_Man]

Even have the mummy be introduced by a cleric of the paladin's deity, saying "don't worry, he detects as good according to my know alignment spell", if that would help.

Come to think of it, I suppose a mummy could *be* a cleric of the paladin's deity, or even a paladin!