D&D 5E Goodman Games What's coming down the Pike for 5e.

JAMUMU

actually dracula
It’s not meant to kill them, just push them.
No shade at all, but this seems counter to a lot of the DCC modules I've run over the years, especially low-level modules. Touch that? You're dead. Look through there? You're a ghost now. Take that? You're the thrall of a cosmic muscle-god. Re-roll.
 

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Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
Sure. My first goal is for the world to make some kind of logical sense. There's only a very few instances when 6-8 combats in a day make any kind of sense at all. To compensate for my need for internal logic, I stack encounters, combine encounters, restrict rests, etc along with house rules. To me, it's a living world first, a game set in that world second.

I will say, most megadungeons just can't make any logical sense. Smaller dungeons absolutely can, but something like Castle Greyhawk or Undermountain... it's built by crazy wizards, doesn't have to be logical and I think it'd be counter to the theme to even try.

Yeah, it requires tinkering, and tailoring to the players powers and style.

Yeah, a balanced party, clerics, how optimized/strategic the party is... I have two power-gamers in my group and they definitely make me throw creatures with beefy CRs at them.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
No shade at all, but this seems counter to a lot of the DCC modules I've run over the years, especially low-level modules. Touch that? You're dead. Look through there? You're a ghost now. Take that? You're the thrall of a cosmic muscle-god. Re-roll.
Well...that's because I'm talking about a 5E game I'm running. The one DCC game I got enough people to play in to form a group...they all bailed once they realized I was serious about them needing a stack of characters at least four deep to maybe make it through the 0-level funnel. We got to (not through...to) the courtyard of the Keep in Sailors of the Starless Sea before most of the group noped out.
I will say, most megadungeons just can't make any logical sense. Smaller dungeons absolutely can, but something like Castle Greyhawk or Undermountain... it's built by crazy wizards, doesn't have to be logical and I think it'd be counter to the theme to even try.
I mean logical in the sense that if you have a group who encounters a wandering monster in the woods...it's not logical to then force them to have 5-7 more fights before allowing them to rest...for reasons. That's pure game mechanics, not the world. There's only a very few places where having 6-8 fights in a row...in a day makes anything approaching logical sense for the world. A big structure purpose built to prevent people from getting to the end where the treasure is? Yep, that's a logical place for 6-8 (or more) combats in a day.
Yeah, a balanced party, clerics, how optimized/strategic the party is... I have two power-gamers in my group and they definitely make me throw creatures with beefy CRs at them.
Even an unoptimized and unbalanced party will see most medium-to-hard, on-level fights as easy mode. If you have even one wargamer, you have to treat them like a powergamer and toss wild encounters at them so it's not a cakewalk. CR is basically useless except as a white room theorycrafting exercise.
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
Sure. My first goal is for the world to make some kind of logical sense. There's only a very few instances when 6-8 combats in a day make any kind of sense at all. To compensate for my need for internal logic, I stack encounters, combine encounters, restrict rests, etc along with house rules. To me, it's a living world first, a game set in that world second.
I have no particular compunction about the world making logical sense in D&D, so I can see how that get in the way of creating challenging action.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Well...that's because I'm talking about a 5E game I'm running. The one DCC game I got enough people to play in to form a group...they all bailed once they realized I was serious about them needing a stack of characters at least four deep to maybe make it through the 0-level funnel. We got to (not through...to) the courtyard of the Keep in Sailors of the Starless Sea before most of the group noped out.

I mean logical in the sense that if you have a group who encounters a wandering monster in the woods...it's not logical to then force them to have 5-7 more fights before allowing them to rest...for reasons. That's pure game mechanics, not the world. There's only a very few places where having 6-8 fights in a row...in a day makes anything approaching logical sense for the world. A big structure purpose built to prevent people from getting to the end where the treasure is? Yep, that's a logical place for 6-8 (or more) combats in a day.

Even an unoptimized and unbalanced party will see most medium-to-hard, on-level fights as easy mode. If you have even one wargamer, you have to treat them like a powergamer and toss wild encounters at them so it's not a cakewalk. CR is basically useless except as a white room theorycrafting exercise.
It's not "Random Fight in the Woods & Dragons", though. It's Dungeons & Dragons. The Dungeon is, properly speaking, where any challenge lies. Out of Dungeon encounters are fluff, practically speaking. They can be fun, but unlikely to be deadly.
 

JAMUMU

actually dracula
Well...that's because I'm talking about a 5E game I'm running. The one DCC game I got enough people to play in to form a group...they all bailed once they realized I was serious about them needing a stack of characters at least four deep to maybe make it through the 0-level funnel. We got to (not through...to) the courtyard of the Keep in Sailors of the Starless Sea before most of the group noped out.
I get you, as it took a few false-starts to get my DCC crew on board with the funnel. But the levelled character that pops out at the end is worth the effort, for them. Totally understand why some groups just won't go near it though, as the funnels are meat-grinders. Funny meat-grinders, if viewed from a certain angle, but meat-grinders none the less.
 

Urriak Uruk

Gaming is fun, and fun is for everyone
I mean logical in the sense that if you have a group who encounters a wandering monster in the woods...it's not logical to then force them to have 5-7 more fights before allowing them to rest...for reasons. That's pure game mechanics, not the world. There's only a very few places where having 6-8 fights in a row...in a day makes anything approaching logical sense for the world. A big structure purpose built to prevent people from getting to the end where the treasure is? Yep, that's a logical place for 6-8 (or more) combats in a day.

I think you're going to have to have to describe the "reasons" because I don't see why not? I've done it, even in non-dungeons. Especially since encounters aren't just fighting, they include things like traps that sap resource like HP or spells for example.

Even an unoptimized and unbalanced party will see most medium-to-hard, on-level fights as easy mode. If you have even one wargamer, you have to treat them like a powergamer and toss wild encounters at them so it's not a cakewalk. CR is basically useless except as a white room theorycrafting exercise.

I mean, easy encounters are a cakewalk, no resources to spend/lose. Medium encounters sap resources, but are easy to overcome. Hard can be challenging and use some resources, but shouldn't lead to anyone dying unless they're careless. Deadly can be deadly.

CR is generally useful in the "typically higher CR are more dangerous than the creature with lower CR." Beyond that general framework, I agree it's not very meaningful.
 

Well...that's because I'm talking about a 5E game I'm running. The one DCC game I got enough people to play in to form a group...they all bailed once they realized I was serious about them needing a stack of characters at least four deep to maybe make it through the 0-level funnel. We got to (not through...to) the courtyard of the Keep in Sailors of the Starless Sea before most of the group noped out.

I mean logical in the sense that if you have a group who encounters a wandering monster in the woods...it's not logical to then force them to have 5-7 more fights before allowing them to rest...for reasons. That's pure game mechanics, not the world. There's only a very few places where having 6-8 fights in a row...in a day makes anything approaching logical sense for the world. A big structure purpose built to prevent people from getting to the end where the treasure is? Yep, that's a logical place for 6-8 (or more) combats in a day.

Even an unoptimized and unbalanced party will see most medium-to-hard, on-level fights as easy mode. If you have even one wargamer, you have to treat them like a powergamer and toss wild encounters at them so it's not a cakewalk. CR is basically useless except as a white room theorycrafting exercise.
I think CR was built with the intention of not killing newbies/a very low power scale. A more advanced group can easily overcome the average CR. Good thing the DM is empowered to make the game challenging enough for their group!
 

teitan

Legend
Challenge Rating is like training wheels. Eventually you gotta take them off and do what seems fun.

Back in the day we didn’t have Challenge Ratings.
 

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