Goodman NOT going GSL it looks like

[evilref]

Plus WOTC only has/had 3 years to do anything about OSRIC. If that time frame has passed, then OSRIC cannot be touched simply because the statute of limitations has run out.

Incorrect. In the US (it differs in other countries) the statute of limitations runs for 3 years from the last breach. The only difference that comes in is that some courts differ on whether you can extend the case back to the first breach if it's outside the three years or not.

And yes, that means if there was any change to OSRIC (for example), a new version, an amendment that saw it republished in any fixed medium (even on the net) then that could count (note, I have no idea whether it is in breach or not, I'm just speaking to the technical aspects of the law).

Also, on your point that you can't bring a suit without financial damages, that's also untrue. In the United States, you can only claim monetary losses for a work that isn't registered with the US Copyright office. If the work is registered then breaches are liable for statutory damages as well as any actual financial losses (as well of course as ordering the cessation of distribution of the offending works). Damages range from around 500 to something between 20-40k (I forget which and I should remember as I was involved in a case a few years where we were awarded the top end. I believe there's also a provision for a 150k damage per breach if the breach is deemed to have been willful.

 

[guivre]

Probably not an issue. After all, DC and Marvel work with having to sell all their product in one month, and they seem to be doing okay.

Well we established earlier in the thread that they are planning to go with the GSL in October (via the interview).

But their current product isn't an issue, they can convert product to the GSL.

 

[Wyrmshadows]

Well, the Inner Circle hasn't ruled out doing a systemless version of Violet Dawn for those not keen on 4e and the GSL. Make sure you check out the company's new forum...

http://www.the-conclave.com/

Ah yes, that you much.

Systemless, this seems the way to go IMO. I'm considering this option myself (with add-ons for True20 and Pathfinder perhaps).


Wyrmshadows

 

[Wyrmshadows]

We've been vocal supporters of 4th Edition since it was announced last year. Now that I've been playing in an ongoing campaign since KotS was released and have looked over the GSL, I'm still very supportive of Dungeons & Dragons. I don't buy into all of the horror stories and rumors on the interwebs so I'm not worried about Wizards pulling the rug from under us.

I was too, before I actually saw the ruleset. I loved the "idea" of some of the changes being made such as no more mechanical alignment effects, jettisoning the Great Wheel, having no actual core world, etc. but the implentation IMO is far from what I was hoping for.

I played it more than once, used to own all the new books...will not play (except maybe a one shot with some friends), will never DM it and have sold the books.

Regarding the threat of WoTC pulling the GSL maybe it'll happen, maybe not. It is a risk however and I think that one could do what Kenzer is doing and going around the GSL thereby creating a compatible product and keeping absolute control of their IP.

And truthfully if we didn't go 4e we were closing up shop. I really feel bad that we never delivered on The Avadnu Primer for 3e, but when the sales of Denizens of Avadnu tanked through distribution, there was no way that we were going to release a huge Campaign Setting and land even more in debt. We didn't team up with Paizo Publishing to sell Denizens of Avadnu for $10 a book because it was widely successful...

I respect your decision, but I think that 3pp games like Pathfinder, True20, Rolemaster, etc. have nice strong fan bases that are hungry for good settings. Its worth considering. Maybe Paizo or Green Ronin will team up with you..its worth considering.

And to those of you who aren't crazy on 4th Edition, I can understand that. We've had a ruleless/licenseless campaign setting book in mind for years. We have no plans to start work on this again until at least next year, but I'd be surprised if we don't release something like that sooner or later.

I'm all behind a systemless campaign setting. Your prior materials were really top notch. I remember the feelihng I got when I stumbled upon your materials. I felt like I did when I first discovered Athas..."Wow this is really unique and incredible." I hope you go systemless but I wish you well no matter what you decide.



Wyrmshadows

 

[pemerton]

Incorrect. In the US (it differs in other countries) the statute of limitations runs for 3 years from the last breach. The only difference that comes in is that some courts differ on whether you can extend the case back to the first breach if it's outside the three years or not.

<snip>

Also, on your point that you can't bring a suit without financial damages, that's also untrue.

Evilref, thanks for the info. Out of curiosity, are you a lawyer?

On the issue of breaches and the running of the limitations period: if the same product continues to be distributed over time (eg the OSRIC pdf is downloaded from their website from time to time) then does each individual distribution-event (eg each download) count as a breach from which the limitations period runs, or if its subsequent distributions of the same work does only the first count as a breach?

 

[CountPopeula]

Well we established earlier in the thread that they are planning to go with the GSL in October (via the interview).

But their current product isn't an issue, they can convert product to the GSL.

What I meant by not an issue is that it's likely they can get all the profit they expect to gain on them newer OGL books in two months and not be bothered about them after that.

 

[evilref]

Evilref, thanks for the info. Out of curiosity, are you a lawyer?

Nope though I'm sure I spend enough time with them to qualify for a badge. I'm in mainstream publishing, specialising in rights management and IP law.

On the issue of breaches and the running of the limitations period: if the same product continues to be distributed over time (eg the OSRIC pdf is downloaded from their website from time to time) then does each individual distribution-event (eg each download) count as a breach from which the limitations period runs, or if its subsequent distributions of the same work does only the first count as a breach?

The last time the work was copied or distributed begins the clock on the statute of limitations (so, in otherwords the last download in your example).

In all respects if you believe your rights have been infringed then your first point of call needs to be a lawyer specialising in IP law in the location you'll bring suit in.

 

[Psion]

And to those of you who aren't crazy on 4th Edition, I can understand that. We've had a ruleless/licenseless campaign setting book in mind for years. We have no plans to start work on this again until at least next year, but I'd be surprised if we don't release something like that sooner or later.

I understand that you have to do what makes sense financially, and that if you like 4e, that's probably where you will have the most effective time spending your talent.

My only regret is not your doing, but Wizards': that once you go live with 4e Violet Dawn products, that you will have to pull down 3e Violet Dawn products and make it harder for other folks to get your stuff that I might introduce to Avadnu in the future.

I'll look out for your systemless books.

 

[dmccoy1693]

For the record, I admit my guess was wrong.

 

[JVisgaitis]

My only regret is not your doing, but Wizards': that once you go live with 4e Violet Dawn products, that you will have to pull down 3e Violet Dawn products and make it harder for other folks to get your stuff that I might introduce to Avadnu in the future.

Well, I'm not a huge fan of that either as I'd love to supply conversion products for use with 3.5. We just can't under the GSL and if going from historical data is any indication, this is the right move for us.

We plan on keeping all of our 3.5 stuff up for sale. Violet Dawn Time of the Unravelling is a different product line for us than just Violet Dawn and we won't do another Denizens of Avadnu. We'd name it something more generic to make it less off putting to people.