Got new weapon: Brutal Greatsword

[AddizAbeba]

Yesterday evening my character (H Pal5) received a new weapon from the DM:
A Brutal Greatsword +1.

It is not really something awe-inspiring, but I wanted to ask what you think of it:

The weapon is basically somewhat longer and heavier, and therefore does somewhat more damage and is somewhat slower.

Ruleswise:
-2 to Init each time you start using it
+1 Damage
Minimum STR 13
(For practical reasons, we needed to keep it a +0 enhancement)

I think this is a good trade, since Init is not so important once you get past the first actions, and my Pally has Dex 11, so Init was already not so great, and flatfooted doesn't cost me AC points.

What do you think?

 

[Cheiromancer]

Is it a magical weapon? That is, does it overcome DR /magic?

What is it priced at? If it is mundane, it looks like a variation of masterwork.

 

[Wystan]

I too would like to know where it stands on the magic scale there?

 

[AddizAbeba]

Sorry, forgot to mention and I was maybe not totally clear:
We play 3e, so damage reduction works on pluses only.

The weapon has a +1 magical enhancement, and Brutal is a +0 equivalent.
In total the weapon is priced as a 'generic' +1 Greatsword

Weapon damage comes down to: 2d6+2 (+1 magic, +1 brutal)
Weapon gives a +1 AB
Weapon gives a -2 to Init each time you start to use it in battle, so when wielding it at the start it immediately modifies your init-position, and if you start to use it later you get the penalty later, and if you keep switching you get the penalty each time you start using it again.

I hope this is more clear.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Weapon gives a -2 to Init each time you start to use it in battle, so when wielding it at the start it immediately modifies your init-position, and if you start to use it later you get the penalty later, and if you keep switching you get the penalty each time you start using it again.

This is just personal perference, but I can't say I'm terribly keen on the "modified Init" bit. I'm assuming the logic behind this is because it's big, heavy and awkward? There's already rules to model this - oversized weapons and many exotic weapons have these characteristics, and give the weilder attack penalties unless they take a feat to compensate. The Init modifier harkens back to the bad old days of Weapon Speeds, and begs the question of why the other types of weapons I mentioned aren't treated the same way. Also sounds like extra work to remember to keep applying the penalty.

All you're getting out of this is brutal property is a +1 damage bonus, right? Personally, I would either simply have the weapon made out of some special material which gives it this property, assign a flat gp value, and be done with it.

Or, as Cheiromancer said, just make it another non-magical masterwork component, meaning the base, non-magical cost of the greatsword would be greatsword (50gp) + standard masterwork component (+1 AB: +300gp) + brutal masterwork component (+1 damage: +300gp) for 650gp total.

You (or your DM) could rule, as some published supplements have done (BadAxe Games Heroes of High Favor series), that the 'brutal' masterwork component alone would be enough for magical properties to be added. (But does the first magical +1 damage overlap the +1 damage masterwork component the same way it would a normal masterwork weapon's + to hit? Hmmm...)

Another possibility - you could go with the approach first introduced, I believe, in Monte Cook's Book of Hallowed Might, making the Brutal property (+1 damage only) a +0.5 enhancement. According to those rules, however, these "half-plus" enhancements need to be taken in pairs to equal a full plus. Maybe not an option, since your DM is shooting for a +0 overall.

 

[Wrathamon]

I agree that this is a bad mechanic "-2 to Init each time you start using it"

It really isnt that penalizing

I would say a +1 Brutal Greatsword has a -1 to hit penalty because t is so ackward to wield but a +1 to damage bonus because of its brutal nature.

But, I find that to be confusing personally and really not all that effective.

if it wasnt magical, then -1 to hit for a +1 damage isnt confusing and works...

It just gets confusing when the weapon says +1 and it really is +0 to hit.


But, initiative just opens up too many cans of worms and gets negated pretty much after the 1st round.

 

[Eloi]

Nice weapon. Do you think that your character might be meant to try to find the Swordmaster Weaponsmith, to find out what else he can do, some special crafting procedure that he's been working on, "but all they want is the 'more damage', pfagh.."

Might be the kind of guy who could take all your measurements and a hefty down payment, and say "Come back in two years, around the Harvest Festival, with the rest" and produce you a weapon that would knock your socks off.

Just considering the possibilities.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I think the weapon has a straight vanilla +1 enhancement, and it also has the "Brutal" enhancement. The brutal enhancement requires a minimum strength of 13, lowers your initiative by -2 and gives +1 to damage.

I guess you could think of the +1 damage as half a feat (weapon specialization) offset by half a negative feat (improved initiative). I don't think it should be available for free. Cost it as masterwork or thereabouts.

And what happens if the wielder doesn't have a 13 strength?