D&D 5E Gracklstugh

CapnZapp

Legend
I just realized I posted in a thread moved to the house rule forum nobody reads, so here's a crosspost, since my post doesn't really belong in that forum anyway:

I have now digested the Grackstugh chapter, and it truly is a mess. Your headaches are understandable.

S P O I L E R S O B V I O U S L Y

The first thing to understand is that what the chapter is: a brief outline of this famous Duergar city, and a short adventure (the Whorlstone Tunnels). There are no real adventures in the city proper, if you don't count isolated random encounters.

The main problem is that the module never tells you it offers one (1) solid lead, for the party to find the actual adventure.

That is Drokki the Derro, down by the docks (at the Blade Bazaar, to be exact). You essentially follow him (or capture and scare the :):):):) out of him) to the Tunnels, and the adventure can commence.

Before that, you need questgivers.

The only reasonably fully realized quest is Captain Errde Blackskull's, but as written this requires the tired tropes of "heroes being captured" and "outsiders getting preferential treatment" and "outsiders considered worthless, which is why we shower them with exciting quests and good loot". The good thing is that, unlike every other questgiver in town, Errde actually tells the PCs what they need to know: there's this derro called Drokki, that Errde believes is somehow connected to corruption within the Council of Savants, where they might find him (Blade Bazaar or Westcleft District), why the PCs might succeed where the Stone Guard hasn't, and what's in it for both Errde and the heroes (favor with the King; Errde's gratitude and/or safe passage)

The other quests are variations of this one, since the only real lead is Drokki. The problem is that the info is so scattered it's very hard as the DM to piece together the puzzle for the benefit of the players playing the module.

Errde actually has a second quest, called "search for corruption". But this is not a real quest, as in an adventure with a beginning, middle and end. There are no connected clues. This only makes sense after absorbing the entire chapter: then you realize this is a clumsy way of rewarding the players for rooting out the various bad guys they are about to root out anyway. This should have been worded more like "and by the way, there are rewards for rooting out evil, just so you know - be proactive" rather than an independent quest.

The "random" encounter with the two-headed Stone Giant. It's actually important, and should not be left out, though you won't know it until you've read the Whorlstone Tunnels section completely. It leads to an audience with Stonespeaker Hgraam. He provides nuggets of information for the far future (as in "many chapters of OotA later"), and actually doesn't provide a quest for the PCs. If you don't plan for the heroes to be given a reason to follow Drokki any other way, consider having Hgraam do it.

Then there's the Keepers of the Flame. They might "snatch" captured heroes, taking custody of the prisoners and instead lead them to Themberchaud's Lair. Where Themberchaud himself plays the same trick on the Keepers, taking the heroes for himself :)

The quest here is Drokki. You see, he's running errand for both bad-guy groups. So this is essentially the same adventure. You should probably not give out both this and Errde's quest, since that's lame.

Then there's the corrupted guard, Gorglak. Problems: when you read about him, the adventure fails completely to tell you he plays a part in the Grey Ghosts' operation. Also, chances are high the adventurers have never met him before when they complete the Whorlstone Tunnels, since he's stationed far away from the Darklake Docks. I suggest you simply make Gorglak the first patrol officer the PCs fall foul of, so the introduction is made.

Then there's Werz Saltbaron. I honestly don't know what his deal is. This chapter offers several pointers to Blingdenstone, and Werz provides one. But what the connection between Werz and Gorglak is, I can't say.

And there's "Ylsa's Deal". When I read this section I flayed about helplessly: where's the quest? What should the PCs do? And what is the solution? No answers are to be had - unless you catch a sentence at the very end of the Whorlstone Tunnels section, where a special coin is mentioned (with no reference back to Ylsa, naturally). Apparently the author once thought Ylsa could too be the heroes questgiver, providing information about reaching the surface in exchange for information on how "the derro gets access to surface coins". Problem is, the party needs to just follow any derro, and happen to choose Drokki. Also, as far as I can understand, the cultists get the surface coins "because magic", so this really never leads anywhere. And this would be fine, if the text actually said so anywhere.

Thank you for your Encounter Map. It is a real shame this chapter provides zero organisation. It must have been written by a mad Derro.
 

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Daern

Explorer
Gracklestugh is indeed written by a mad derro. I think the best way to go is to allow for multiple avenues into the same find the Derro quest. ( It would be even better if there was a clear sense that he was spreading demon corruption as he went. Two-headed Demogorgon worship is heretical to the devil worshipping duergar. In my campaign, the heroes have seen a lot of two headed art around the Derro ghetto.)
The Captain, Dragon, priest, or even the Salt Barron can send the heroes after Drokki. He has become noticed as a wild card in town (the Gray Ghosts cant totally control him) so he needs to be dealt with.
One thing to play up is that the Undercity of the Derro is super volatile, so the regular emissaries of the Duergar or even the dragon cannot enter the ghetto without sparking a minor civil war.
Its super frustrating. I have only gotten to these ideas after DMing a couple sessions and stumbling through it.
There is also the question of why? Should the players get distracted by this sidequest? One is that they have been arrested. I have told them that they will not be easily allowed to escape without doing a favor for the duergar, but if they do then they will be given supplies. I had the Salt Baron give them a map as well.

here's a link to a blog I found that has write ups of Gracklestugh sessions.
http://www.firstsightsecondthoughts.net/?p=1145
 

Daern

Explorer
Just read of a good dwarven interrogation technique: Acid applied to a beard so that it will never grow back...
 

CapnZapp

Legend
I should probably have said "compiled and organized by a mad Derro".

The adventure itself is inventive and quite all right. Once you reach the Whorlstone section, the "how to get involved" headache is over and the fun can begin :)
 

CapnZapp

Legend
There is also the question of why? Should the players get distracted by this sidequest? One is that they have been arrested. I have told them that they will not be easily allowed to escape without doing a favor for the duergar, but if they do then they will be given supplies.
Well, this is D&D after all - you generally need no reason for the party to investigate... the allure of fighting bad guys is usually enough, and its own reward!

Of course, should your players be steeped in the mindset of... pretty much every other rpg... where it's realistic and prudent to want to avoid trouble, then I guess you need a reason...

...but to be honest, most D&D adventures only provide the weakest excuse for being allowed to go down the dungeon to slay monsters, gain loot and "xp up"!

In D&D, the safest course is often to seek out trouble. Otherwise you won't be of high enough level when the trouble reaches you ;)

Guess all I'm saying is: I knew my group wouldn't need to be "forced" into taking the assignment. They dutifully listened to my description of the city, but really only perked up when the quest materialized, and waved away any concerns, eager to finally get down to it. So I really didn't need more set-up than "there's this derro, follow him, deal with whatever happens as you see fit, GO"
 

Daern

Explorer
Its more like, "Why stick around here instead of continuing to search the underdark for exits. I've resisted the urge to say, "So you find lootz and powerups!" :)
I drew up a player map for them. It might help them make further decisions past Gracklestugh. Or it might just confuse them.

IMG_1867.JPG
 
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darjr

I crit!
At this point it might help to let them know that other drow are hunting them and know they are here. If they leave they'll have to face a bunch of them. It's a "safe" place because the Duergar won't let the Drow run amuck. That should be a good in story reason to stay.

The Duergar hate the Drow almost as much as the Derro hate everyone.
 
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Celtavian

Dragon Lord
I modified Gracklstugh in a fairly cliché manner. The party was attacked by the two-headed stone giant which was related to a mad two-headed stone giant they fought on their way to Gracklstugh. This signaled that there were serious problems in Gracklstugh.

I had Xalith put in a claim on behalf Ilvara for her property. I read Menzoberranzan and Gracklstugh have a trade agreement. I figure this included respecting property rights when it came to slaves and prisoners. Errde rounded up the PCs. He and Gartokkar decided to send the PCs after Droki, since they had word he was part of the problem. They agreed to free the PCs if they take care of the Droki problem including killing an Derro Savants involved with the operation. The duergar want to use the PCs so they don't cause a derro uprising if any of the Derro Savants are killed. They want order restored in the city.

It wasn't particularly creative. It fit with the story elements provided. It's keeping the characters pushing forward in the adventure.
 

Motorskills

Explorer
I'm introducing a new character when the PCs arrive at Gracklestugh (secretly, by boat).

I'm considering having the new PC (halfling barbarian) having been a former slave co-erced by Captain Errde to track down Droki...but proving unable to do so. Willing to trade assisting the party in the city for their assistance in capturing Droki.
 

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