Grade the GURPS System

[Thomas Shey]

But, as Staffan notes, real overhaul would probably not be accepted by the existing fanbase.

This is a question that comes up periodically in the Hero System community, too. And it always comes down to this: whether it seems important to some people or not, something is always lost when simplifying a game, especially a detail-oriented one. So the question ends up being "Do you gain enough new fandom with the simpler version than you lose of the extent fandom (static or shrinking as they may be)?" Because if you don't, it makes no sense from a business standpoint.

 

[aramis erak]

This is a question that comes up periodically in the Hero System community, too. And it always comes down to this: whether it seems important to some people or not, something is always lost when simplifying a game, especially a detail-oriented one. So the question ends up being "Do you gain enough new fandom with the simpler version than you lose of the extent fandom (static or shrinking as they may be)?" Because if you don't, it makes no sense from a business standpoint.

GURPS Lite seems to be the lowest level commercially successful... and is what is licensed to the licensees most of the time. (I've not seen a PBG title that wasn't standalone, but it's plausible there might be one or two, and I quit GURPS before PBG was available.)

Whether dropping the linkage for figured stats worked well for Hero System? I don't know, but I'm not seeing much love from any non-grogs...

 

[Thomas Shey]

GURPS Lite seems to be the lowest level commercially successful... and is what is licensed to the licensees most of the time. (I've not seen a PBG title that wasn't standalone, but it's plausible there might be one or two, and I quit GURPS before PBG was available.)

Whether dropping the linkage for figured stats worked well for Hero System? I don't know, but I'm not seeing much love from any non-grogs...

Well, the people talking about simplifying Hero are usually talking about something well beyond the 6e delinking thing; reducing attributes and skills, getting rid of the Speed chart, and so on. In other words its a much bigger ask of people who already like the system.

 

[Wolfpack48]

Yeah I was thinking more along the lines of keeping the spirit of the existing system but streamlining and simplifying.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah I was thinking more along the lines of keeping the spirit of the existing system but streamlining and simplifying.

The problem is the question of what that would even mean.

 

[Wolfpack48]

The problem is the question of what that would even mean.

What indeed? That’s the question I posed.

 

[The Shadow]

Yeah I was thinking more along the lines of keeping the spirit of the existing system but streamlining and simplifying.

In all honesty, I don't think what you'd have left would be recognizable as GURPS. In effect you'd be creating a new game and slapping the name on it because marketing.

Part of what GURPS is is the crunch level. I mean, if you don't believe me, look at GURPS Vehicles.

 

[The Shadow]

The only problem with that approach is that it properly rewards how frequent disadvantage is, but as expressed in those games, it doesn't reward intensity.

In practice, I don't find this to be a problem. The intensity boils down to coming up more often.

If it were considered essential to model the distinction, though, it could certainly be done. Just say that hindrances, flaws, or whatever can grant a variable number of metacurrency points.

 

[Thomas Shey]

In practice, I don't find this to be a problem. The intensity boils down to coming up more often.

In some disadvantages, and I won't speak specifically of GURPS ones here, but I can think of things where that's not true. A limp (which reduces your movement) and parapalegia are both going to cause problems regularly, but the latter is far more severe in most cases. Similarly, having an enemy may come up as often, but not be as easy to deal with depending what it is.

If it were considered essential to model the distinction, though, it could certainly be done. Just say that hindrances, flaws, or whatever can grant a variable number of metacurrency points.

Sure. I just haven't seen a game do that.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Kromm and David Culver, IMO, are part of the problem. GURPS has had the same vision for close to 30 years and sometimes that is a bad thing. We won't ever know if it could be more than that as long as Steve is alive & Kromm is in charge of the line. Steve's focus on TFT shows us that yes he built GURPS but he was just waiting to see when TFT would become available. I mean his presence & a 3rd party license are working for TFT then they certainly could work for GURPS.

Sometimes the person who founded a company shouldn't be running it.

To be fair, Kromm isn't the one who makes business decisions about GURPS direction. Illustrative KrommQuote:

However, whether any of the suggestions are things SJ Games could act on isn't for me to say . . . I'm a long-term contractor, not an employee, much less senior staff with a deciding vote. If you're asking me to share my feelings – which is to say, you're asking a guy on the Internet his opinion – I can say only what I'd like to see as a content-creator and gamer with an inside track:

...I feel that with or without any of the above, an OGL approach would grow the game's player base and market share. It's beyond my scope of practice to say whether that would be worth the hit to GURPS's or SJ Games' sales and reputation caused by the occasional stinkers that throwing open the doors inevitably generates . . . Gamers are demonstrably bad at separating authors from one another and from their editors, and all of those from publishers (I mean, people talk about me as if I were staff, and say "GURPS should do . . ." as if the game were a publisher), so I could see SJ Games being blamed for things it didn't publish.

Source: Steve Jackson Games Forums - View Single Post - GURPS News updated

So it's probably either Steve Jackson who's responsible for even recent GURPS marketing and licensing decisions.