Grading At-Will Powers

Numbers can be used in many ways. The value of Illusory Ambush really depends on two things - your chance to hit the target, and the target's chance to hit you. It's not a static chance.

Yes, numbers can easily be skewed as you showed. That's why I talk about average foes and not specific groups. If one uses Illusory Ambush versus Brutes in their examples like you did, one can misrepresent Illusory Ambush to make it look real good.

Your Tarrasque example is a bit of a joke. Sure, the Wizard can easily give the Tarrasque a -2 to hit. But he would NEVER EVER do that until late in the combat. First off, he should not readily know that he has a 95% chance to hit the Tarrasque and only a 45% chance to hit the Ancient Red Dragon.

Secondly, he would throw most of his Per Encounter and Daily powers at the Tarrasque and only when he was done doing that would he ever consider using Illusory Ambush.

And, the Tarrasque can give the Wizard a -5 to AC. Suddenly, the Tarrasque is +3 to hit the Wizard. And, the Tarrasque can walk right through the Defender's square in order to get to the Wizard (and it is unlikely that the Wizard could ever Fly out of reach due to Earthbinding). Or, the Tarrasque could attack the Wizard with a Tail Slap and it's +32 to hit Fort attack -2 due to Illusory Damage will still hit the super AC super Int Wizard ~80+% of the time (the Wizard cannot maintain great Defenses across the board).

Yup, the -2 is very helpful in this scenario. This scenario.


But, these are not average encounters. For the 1 in 5 encounters where Illusory Ambush is slightly better (much better chance to hit, but still less damage and still infrequent chance to protect the party with the -2 to attacks boon), there are 4 encounters (and especially the 1 minion encounter) where Cloud of Daggers wipes the floor with Illusory Ambush. The reason is that the chance to hit is about the same between the two in these majority cases, but Cloud of Daggers does more damage. Dead foes do not need a 1 in 16 chance of putting a -2 to hit on them.

Sorry, but offense trumps defense in 4E for the most part. It's all about economy of actions. It's often better to kill 1 foe than it is to damage or hinder 3 foes (unless one can hinder them to the point that they cannot do counterattack actions).

The main advantage that PCs have over NPCs is that when NPCs gang up on a single PC, that PC can be healed and can still fight. When PCs gang up on a single NPC, it typically cannot be healed and eventually just falls. So, NPCs rarely decrease the number of PCs they are fighting from round to round whereas PCs often decrease the number of NPCs they are fighting from round to round.

It's all about economy of actions.

When NPCs do manage to decrease the number of PCs they are fighting from round to round, that's typically when TPKs (or semi-TPKs if some PCs run away) occur.

One PC falling is not often that big of a deal, but when 2 or 3 fall, things can turn real bad for the PCs real quick. Just like it does once most of the NPCs fall in the opposite direction.

Still think the control aspect of Illusory Ambush is useless?

I did not say that Illusory Ambush was useless. I said it was on average suboptimal. Same for Ray of Frost (which is even more on average suboptimal than Illusory Ambush).

There are always going to be scenarios where one At Will power is preferable to any other. Magic Missile wipes the floor up on all of the other At Wills if the Wizard stays 11+ squares away from his foes (at least from the POV of the Wizard, maybe not from the POV of the entire party).


One thing people forget is that in order to get to super PCs and wipe out the Tarrasque, the PCs have to do a few things first:

1) Wipe out ~290 encounters before getting to 30th level, the vast majority of these where Cloud of Daggers helps combat more than either Ray of Frost or Illusory Ambush.

2) Somehow survive all of these encounters (i.e. no TPKs). For the 20 Int Wizard, sure, he is throwing out strong attacks (I am playing a 20 Int Wizard, so I know, 20 Int does >20% more damage than 18 Int). It also means that at least one and possibly two of the Wizard's other Defenses are suboptimal (the Wizard can only bump 2 stats up on most bump up levels and there are a lot of ability score prerequisites to craft a Super Wizard). For example, the mega-AC 50 Wizard that you are talking about has to give something up in order to get a Heavy Shield and Hide Armor. Str and Con do not grow on trees.

3) The PCs have to have all of these magical items that people doing comparisons so easily hand out. But, if you check the DMG magic item hand out system, this is not the case. A party of 5 just made level 30 this morning PCs if given the recommended items (over many levels) would each have:

2 level 30 items, 1 level 29 item, 1 level 28 item, 1 level 27 item, 1 level 26 item, etc. (assuming they use most of their cash to craft/purchase items as well, otherwise they would have 0.8 level 29, 28, 27 etc. items each).

Will a level 29 Wizard always have +6 Starleather armor, or might he have +6 Feyleather armor? Or, might he have +5 Feyleather armor because he has not yet been able to find Starleather and this armor is the best he had 3 levels ago?

Giving PCs the best equipment and the best feats and the best stats does not make for a sound POV.

That might happen is some games, but I suspect that most DMs do not hand out the optimal items at every single level. Even following the DMG guidelines does not result in optimal items all of the time.

Not all players will be playing mega-PCs. Sure, they will pick good items and feats and ability scores, but they won't be optimized across the board. Want a high Int Wizard, one gives up Fort Defense. Want a high AC Wizard, one gives up Wisdom or Int. Pros and Cons.

Want Illusory Ambush to wipe out weak Will opponents? Fine. You don't get to wipe out quite as many Minions or Leaders or Elites as quickly.

Again, Pros and Cons.


This is why it is always better to talk about average scenarios when discussing powers. Any given power can shine in any given scenario, but it might be drastically suboptimal to another power on average.
 
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Twin Strike is obviously a legal power. It's just also far better than any other damaging power, and by enough of a measure that it's difficult for me to rate things in the same 'letter' area... but by the grading system the baseline I established was a B. I don't want the baseline to be a C, because that implies any power that's worse (a D) is actually is mediocre, instead of adequate. B is the 'grade' that a power should aspire for, from a design perspective, as far as I can tell, and the lion's share of well-designed powers should be Bs.

Maybe my understanding of grading is flawed, though.

C - Pass. Adequate.
D - Mediocre. Fails in some cases, borderline passes in others.

Right?

If Twin Strike didn't exist and someone posted a fighter power that let them swing twice but lose Str to the damage, it would be called out as ridiculous. Though, I think the better example would be eldritch blasting twice. There is a precedent for double hitting powers, but they're all pretty restrictive - Hellish Rebuke, Dire Radiance, and Riposte Strike.

Weirdly, it's less of a problem if you restrict it to just dual wield but not bows. At least that's some restriction on its use.
 
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Shouldn't Careful Strike not decrease because Twin Strike is better... just Twin Strike should be a lot better? That is, I don't think we should decrease the scores of any powers here when Martial Power (or DDI, or whatever) releases new powers. Unless the entire scale has to change because they've released a lot of broken stuff... but that's an 'And everything moves down 1' type maneuver.
I rated it low because its in direct competition with twin strike. Both accomplish the same thing. If you have one, there's no need to have the other. In a way, I could have ranked Careful Strike at a zero- the fact that twin strike exists means that careful strike need not exist.
 

But that doesn't change things, Cadfan. An infinite number of powers can be added later. If Martial Power adds a fighter 'Rapid Swing' ability that works like TWS, we shouldn't decrease all of the powers already out.

That said, the letter scale for just failing things works out too :)
 

Why do so many people think righteous brand is a good cleric power?
Strength based clerics are not suboptimal. Running a cleric with a starting strength of 18 is entirely reasonable. Use a feat for proficiency with a bastard sword, and you've got a +7 attack bonus at level 1. Hitting with Righteous Brand gives an ally a +4 to hit. This is absolutely enormous, and just gets better as you level up and your strength improves.

Dragonborn Cleric, starting stats
Str 16+2=18
Con 13
Dex 10
Int 11
Wis 14
Cha 12+2=14

That's an entirely viable character, using a non-optimized default array.
 

But that doesn't change things, Cadfan. An infinite number of powers can be added later. If Martial Power adds a fighter 'Rapid Swing' ability that works like TWS, we shouldn't decrease all of the powers already out.

That said, the letter scale for just failing things works out too :)
It works well enough for me. If we have Power A (int v reflex, 1d6+int damage) and power B (int v reflex, 1d8+int damage), and there are no other differences between the powers, the first one probably deserves a zero. Its grade only makes sense in the context of the other powers available to a class. In this case, the other powers available to the class include one which is strictly superior. So, the first one might as well not exist.

In this case, the two ranger powers accomplish the same task. One is better than the others at all times except

1. Incredibly, insanely high armor class, and
2. When you only have one arrow.

So, the lesser power is very, very close to worthless in context.
 

*WIZARD*
B+ / Cloud of Daggers
B- / Magic Missile
B- / Ray of Frost
A / Scorching Burst
A / Thunderwave
B+ / Illusionary Foes

My ratings for these (not compared to other class At Will powers):

A / Cloud of Daggers
B+ / Magic Missile
C- / Ray of Frost (Fort save, lowest damage, Slow rarely affects combat, yikes!)
B- / Illusory Ambush (sorry, but if taking only one single target At Will, Magic Missile affects combat more overall by doing more extra damage than IA saves with its -2)

By definition, most Wizards should have an area of effect At Will power. So, these powers have a slightly higher rating just because one of them is practically required. I really cannot see a real helpful Wizard without an At Will AoE except possibly at high level where he has so many Per Encounter (and Daily) area powers that he does not need an At Will one (and even this does not sound like a real strong strategy).

A+ / Scorching Burst
A- / Thunderwave

I use Scorching Burst a lot, probably close to 50% of the time. In 12 encounters, I have used Thunderwave in two rounds (once to great effect saving a fellow PC from a swarm but that required using it twice due to it missing on the first try and with an action point succeeding on the second try, once to no effect trying to move a Dragon right next to my PC).


For my human PC Wizard, I took Cloud of Daggers, Scorching Burst, and Thunderwave.

I could see taking Illusory Ambush, but only as a Human Wizard with Scorching Burst and Cloud of Daggers as the other two At Wills. But if only taking one At Will single target power, Illusory Ambush is not as good as Cloud of Daggers or Magic Missile (on average). It sounds better than it actually is.
 

No, it'd be Starleather. They don't make +6 Feyleather ;) But, yeah, he might have +5 feyleather.

Thanks. Since I'm not DMing (and since we are still level 2 PCs), I did not carefully read the magic armor rules which indicate that given bonus items automatically also give masterwork qualities.
 

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