-2 penalty is the same as Illusory Ambush, that's mainly why it's a B. Brutal Scoundrals gain their strength bonus to every sneak attack, instead of just rattling ones like Ruthless Ruffians, so I'm not sure if that's enough of an incentive to bump it up a knotch. I felt it was better than Sly Flourish, but not better than Piercing Strike, that's the other reason why it's sitting at a B. If more people agree Disheartening Strike helps the rogue do his job as well as Piercing Strike, I'll consider bumping it up to a B+.
Grading At-Will Powers
- Thread starter keterys
- Start date
-2 penalty is the same as Illusory Ambush, that's mainly why it's a B. Brutal Scoundrals gain their strength bonus to every sneak attack, instead of just rattling ones like Ruthless Ruffians, so I'm not sure if that's enough of an incentive to bump it up a knotch. I felt it was better than Sly Flourish, but not better than Piercing Strike, that's the other reason why it's sitting at a B. If more people agree Disheartening Strike helps the rogue do his job as well as Piercing Strike, I'll consider bumping it up to a B+.
You don't need a power that works once a round. There are better things than that:
Dual Strike 1w/1w
Marking Scourge +wis
Pitfighter or Lawbreaker's Doom(Dragon 370) - +wis
Either Tempest or Battlerager with temp hit points +2
WF +2
At 11th level, it isn't at all improbable that a character could do:
1w+14/1w+14 with an at-will and a non-magical weapon. Dual Strike also means that you mark and then swing again, so you have a chance of using Marking Scourge/Lawbreaker's Doom.
eamon
Explorer
I'd say footwork lure isn't any better than tide of iron. Brash strike too is probably at best a B+. It's fine for some builds, but the combat advantage hurts; and it's not as flexible as cleave/tide of iron. It's primary advantage is great damage output, but it's worse than cleave vs. minions, and a Con-build will want crushing surge - so it's facing stiff competition. I agree that Crushing surge is excellent, a solid A. Dual strike is indeed worse than twin strike, though obviously some builds will value it above all other fighter powers.
eamon
Explorer
Predator strike looks poor. No enhancement bonus to damage? Mediocre attack bonus? It's almost certainly only viable at high levels, when the beasts attack bonus catches up somewhat, but the damage will never be great. I might be missing some feats or trick that improve it, however. Certainly at low levels it's not much good.
I agree. I'd still value piercing strike higher, but disheartening is certainly better that the rest.
Both new powers are indeed mediocre. If Brash Strike actually ever works, an opponent won't fall for it again, and then it's just a melee basic attack. Essentially, it can only ever be better than a melee basic attack if enemies are stupid, and the basic attack of an enemy is less useful against you than your allies basic attack against him. That's rare; monster basic attacks are good and PC attacks are poor. You'll generally only win if somehow your AC is very good, or the monster's AC is poor, or you have a rogue or ranger that for some reason didn't get sneak attack/ hunter's quarry in. However, most rogues/ranger will try that every round, so even with a rogue or ranger in the party, this power is situational and still only any good against unwise opponents. I'd say Brash Assault is worse than opening shove - maybe a D, no better. Opening shove is weird, but at least in some circumstances it might be a real benefit. Brash Assault is almost never any good.
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blargney the second
blargney the minute's son
I was looking at Brash Assault for my tactical warlord, and it's kind of a strange power. Much like the fighter's Combat Challenge, it forces the DM to make a tough decision right in the middle of a fight where he's probably got other stuff on his mind. Iff he's willing to play along with it, it'd be hilarious to see the interaction of BA with the fighter's challenge! (3 basic attacks to the monster's one.)
That's a big iff though...
-blarg
Nail
First Post
Yes please!Yay, MenguI'll update the first post if people discuss the values.
Valid points (if a bit situational), I might bump it up to an A, depending on other feedback.
But in practice, it is. The fighters with Tide of Iron can't seem to use it very well to provide flanks. But Footwork Lure can easily open up great flank opportunities to the rogue, without exposing the rogue as much to the enemy line. Mechanically, they do the same thing, but tactically, Footwork Lure is a knotch better.
It depends on the build. For a battlerager who is giving up weapon talent and a point of proficiency, it perfectly makes up for the lost attack bonus. I may have been a little too excited about this fix for Sure Strike. I'll consider knocking it down to B+.
At low level, your Wisdom modifier is what makes up for the enhancement bonus to damage, and you can usually give your beast companion a flank. It didn't seem too different than Sly Flourish, but I guess not using a weapon, you're not getting any weapon focused magic or feats, which makes it a bit worse. I'll gladly knock this down to a C.
Brash Assault makes me scartch my head also. I haven't seen it or anything like it in action though, that's why I was giving it the benefit of the doubt. For a moment let's assume monsters will always take the attack. I think it becomes a question of how outnumbered you are. If you and an ally are outnumbered 4 to 2, that means enemies take 4 attacks against your 2. Changing that ratio to 5 attacks verses 3 is beneficial. However if you outnumber the enemy 2 to 1, you're giving them an extra attack, changing your ratio to 3 to 2 which is advantageous for the enemy.
Once the DM figures this out, it's easy enough to make the quick calculation and essentially always screw the player. I'll knock it down to a D.
Thanks for the feedback.
Made some of the discussed changes.
Link to new at-wills
I also added Druid powers, so please take a look at those as well. Most of them seem pretty average when I balance the pros against cons (which is impressive from a design PoV), but I may be missing something.
Link to new at-wills
I also added Druid powers, so please take a look at those as well. Most of them seem pretty average when I balance the pros against cons (which is impressive from a design PoV), but I may be missing something.
yesnomu
First Post
I dunno, I think Chill Wind merits at least a B+. It targets Fort and does less damage than Scorching Burst, but the sliding is pretty boss. Minions don't usually have super-high Fort, so I wouldn't rate it much worse than SB in that respect either.
I think Savage Rend deserves an A-. It's a melee basic attack, so it can be used on OAs, and a slide can be just as tactically useful as CA if a defender is nearby. Definitely better than Grasping Claws, you don't want enemies staying near you.
EDIT: And Chill Wind works nicely with Lasting Frost/Wintertouched. Area cold spells are niiiice.
