Grapple and AoO Question

[Infinite_Kydeem]

Assuming my character has a BAB +6/+1 and does NOT have improved grapple.

I try and grapple someone as part of a full attack action. The opponent gets an AoO. If that AoO succeeds in causing me damage, the grapple attempt fails before it really even gets started. I can then attempt a grapple again (at +1 instead of +6). If the opponent has only the one AoO each round (usually the case), they do not get another chance to prevent the grapple (other than with the touch AC and opposed check).

Is this correct? If so, I don't think I would very often choose the improved grapple feat.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It is so. But, the touch attack roll is harder (though as a touch attack, it's not bad) and the opposed grapple check is harder. With Improved Grapple, you would (a) not provoke in the first place which is better especially against an opponent with combat reflexes, (b) gain +4 on the opposed grapple check, and (c) because you didn't provoke, you could use your second iterative attack to pin your opponent or damage your opponent.

 

[Infinite_Kydeem]

True. But the only opponents I would usually try to grapple would be spell casters to keep them from using their spells as easily. Most of the time, I would expect them to do poorly on the opposed checks.

 

[frankthedm]

That is for the best. Grappling really shuts most characters down.

 

[Infiniti2000]

True. But the only opponents I would usually try to grapple would be spell casters to keep them from using their spells as easily. Most of the time, I would expect them to do poorly on the opposed checks.

Then, even more so do you want improved grapple on the off chance that they have (say) a dagger in hand and thwart the first grapple. You want to be able to grapple them and then pin them in one round, to avoid the subsequent dimension door. The +20% success for Improved Grapple is also very useful.

 

[werk]

I can then attempt a grapple again (at +1 instead of +6). If the opponent has only the one AoO each round (usually the case), they do not get another chance to prevent the grapple (other than with the touch AC and opposed check).

Is this correct? If so, I don't think I would very often choose the improved grapple feat.

Another possible tactic, if you don't mind drawing an AoO, but don't want to waste your +6...move into his square. That'll draw the AoO, and shunt you right back where you want to be for your first attack.

Or is there something that prevents this?

 

[Infiniti2000]

Another possible tactic, if you don't mind drawing an AoO, but don't want to waste your +6...move into his square. That'll draw the AoO, and shunt you right back where you want to be for your first attack.

Or is there something that prevents this?

That wouldn't be "accidental" then, would it?

Instead, just walk around the opponent.

 

[Bryntryst]

From what I understand, moving into his square is what provokes the AoO to begin with.

 

[Stalker0]

yeah the best way to go about it without improved grapple is to walk around the opponent, provoking an AOO, and then grappling. However, this will probably only work against stupid opponents, once the DM knows what your doing he probably won't take an AOO with smarter opponents.

 

[Infiniti2000]

yeah the best way to go about it without improved grapple is to walk around the opponent, provoking an AOO, and then grappling. However, this will probably only work against stupid opponents, once the DM knows what your doing he probably won't take an AOO with smarter opponents.

That would mean that the DM was metagaming. The opponent has no idea that the PC is planning on grappling him. The PC could very well say, "I walk around him, does he take an AoO?"

From what I understand, moving into his square is what provokes the AoO to begin with.

No. The grapple attempt provokes an AoO only from the target. Moving into the square provokes an AoO from everyone else except the target.