Grappling For Beginners: How To Strike, Hold & Throw

[Morrus]

The book has been updated again, folks - a couple of minor typos plus a new section covering Bullrush, Overrun and Trip.

 

[RangerWickett]

Russ, I haven't yet had a chance to look at this product, but the one fix I use for my campaign is this:

Special attacks -- bull rushes, disarms, trips, and grapples -- only provoke an attack of opportunity if you fail. In a trip or disarm, the opponent may use this AoO to try to trip or disarm you in response without themselves provoking an AoO. I feel this encourages players to try weird maneuvers, since they're not immediately punished just for trying. It gives combat a bit more spice.

 

[Sean the Metamage]

Morrus, trying to review, I started thinking about all the applications of your rules, and I thought about dragons, snakes, etc...

What do you do about Constrict, Improved Grab, Rake, Swallow Whole, and Snatch? (all special abilities, save Snatch, a monster feat)

Also, I just downloaded the last update, and I saw that the ZIP contained the earlier PDF (not updated) + the doc (updated). Is it voluntary?

 

[Morrus]

Oh, oops. That's not what I meant to do! I stuck the wrong one in the ZIP, clearly. I'll reupload.

Yeah, I thought about those issues, too. I think that will require a section all of its own!

 

[Morrus]

OK, consider the attached to be a [draft] free web-enhancement for the book. I may integrate it into the PDF at some point, but I wanted the PDF to be short and simple, and it's getting longer! At this rate it's gonna look like a complicated ruleset!

 

[Kristian Serrano]

Umm... under the core grappling rules you cannot both start a grapple and deal damage in one action either.

Actually, you do automatically inflict damage as a free action.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple

Step 3

Hold. Make an opposed grapple check as a free action.

If you succeed, you and your target are now grappling, and you deal damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike.

Under these new rules, low-level characters will never be able to apply damage while grappling someone.

Additionally, I'm a bit unclear about "throw" attack actions with weapons such as whips and chains. With these rules, it seems that the attacker now has to make a "hold" action one round and a "throw" action in another instead of tripping them.

 

[Kristian Serrano]

Examples?

I'm thinking perhaps the PDF should have several different scenarios with steps of turns and rounds to show how these rules work in play. Also include examples of individuals making "throw" attacks without engaging in a grapple first.

 

[Morrus]

Additionally, I'm a bit unclear about "throw" attack actions with weapons such as whips and chains. With these rules, it seems that the attacker now has to make a "hold" action one round and a "throw" action in another instead of tripping them.

Also include examples of individuals making "throw" attacks without engaging in a grapple first.

Not at all. All three attack types are a single attack and a single attack roll. No preliminary hold is required before a throw. A trip is a Throw attack, which requires one attack roll against the target's grapple armor class. If you succeed, he's prone. If you fail, he's not.

Here's what the PDF says:

A throw is resolved in the same way as a hold – you must make an attack against your opponent’s grapple armor class using your grapple attack bonus. If you succeed, your opponent is rendered prone.

To be honest, while I'd love to make that clearer in the PDF, I can't see how I can word it in a clearer way. I can't see anywhere where it implies that a hold is required before a throw, but if I have misphrased something somewhere, please let me know where so that I can correct it.

Your example of someone making a throw attack without "engaging in a grapple"... well, for a start, you can't "engage in a grapple": you're getting that from the core rules, not from this PDF. All you can do is attempt a Strike, Hold or Throw attack. Your example by these rules therefore goes as follows:

Peter rolls to hit Paul*. He hits. Paul falls down.

*Noting that you are using grapple attack bonus and grapple armor class.

See how simple it is? You can see why I haven't included examples! Let me know if that clears things up. Remember, IGNORE the PHB grappling rules. Don't mix anything from the PHV section on grappling with this. They are two different systems.

 

[Kristian Serrano]

Not at all. All three attack types are a single attack and a single attack roll. No preliminary hold is required before a throw. A trip is a Throw attack, which requires one attack roll against the target's grapple armor class. If you succeed, he's prone. If you fail, he's not.

My mistake. I think I just misread the PDF when I was trying to quickly digest it.

 

[Zoatebix]

Actually, you do automatically inflict damage as a free action.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#grapple
Under these new rules, low-level characters will never be able to apply damage while grappling someone.

Additionally, I'm a bit unclear about "throw" attack actions with weapons such as whips and chains. With these rules, it seems that the attacker now has to make a "hold" action one round and a "throw" action in another instead of tripping them.

Right you are - I honestly don't know what I was thinking.