DrSpunj said:Improved Bullrush talks about moving into the defender's space, however there's no similar section in the Hold attack section. If the attacker's Hold is successful do both combatants remain in their original spaces? I'm getting a picture of Sumo wrestlers here, if so.![]()
Either way, you list the penalties applied for someone who is held when being attacked by opponents other than the one grappling them, but are not explicit about any possibility of randomly hitting one of the other combatants either in melee or with ranged weapons. The PHB describes the latter while other systems (namely Iron Heroes) describe the former. Just looking for a clarification here, really.
If someone is successfully held, you describe their -4 to AC to other opponents and delineate their options for attacking with a light weapon or natural attack at a -4 penalty, or unarmed strikes without penalty. They also can't use two weapons. However, it's not clear to me whether they can use those options only against the person(s) holding them, or whether they could choose to attack foes outside the grapple but within range. It's very cinematic to have the hero being held in a choke hold by one opponent and being unable to shake him loose before another foe comes up to join the fun; the hero kicks the new guy away before throwing the holder off of him.![]()
Morrus said:They remain in their own squares, just like any melee combatats do. If you think about it, two sword-fighters would be circling each other, etc. - but the rules abstract that out and don't deal with it. In the same way, these rules just "assume" there's all sorts of wriggling about and funky stuff going on.
Morrus said:This pretty much means I don't need to answer half your questions now.![]()
Morrus said:Basically, it's all a lot less harsh on the grapplers now - in the interests of smooth play and cool, cinematic combat.
Hope all that helped!
LordMelquiades said:1. In movies and the like, two dudes are grappling with one another, right? Let's call then The Goon and Steve Austin. Steve grabs The Goon's knife and stabs him. The Goon is not seriously hurt, but shouts in pain and drops the grapple. Maybe dealing any sort of damage when held should cause your opponent to drop his grapple? Or create a chance to cause the grapple to end (eg force the wounded Goon to make another grapple attack, at a penalty based on the damage received)? Maybe this over-complicates things, which I Do Not Want To Happen!
2. Instead of the standard Trip rules, you suggest we use your Throw rules. Cool. Does the standard 'Tipping with a Weapon' rules still apply (no AoO, and you can drop the weapon to avoid the 'reflected trip'; although I guess there is no such thing as the 'reflected trip' anymore)?
Morrus said:That's right - no reflected trip.
LordMelquiades said:Righty. So, the only benefit now of using a weapon to trip/throw is that you do not provoke an AoO, is that correct? Which, I must say, seems benefit enough to me to still make it worthwhile.
Does this apply to the grappler who has applied the hold (as well as the victim of the hold)?Morrus said:While held, you may make attacks with a light weapon or a natural weapon, although you suffer a -4 penalty on such attacks.
Do you mean that by having the Improved Bull Rush feat a character does not provoke an attack of opportunity from anyone other than the defender, or that in all cases, attempting a Bull Rush using these rules does not provoke an attack of opportunity from anyone other than the defender?Morrus said:provokes an attack of opportunity from the defender. (If you have the Improved Bull Rush feat, you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender; note that, as a change from the core rules, this does not provoke an attack of opportunity from anyone other than the defender.)