D&D 5E Grappling Questions

[Greenstone.Walker]

A mid-level fighter can knock an ogre prone, hold them on the ground with one hand, and still make an attack - all in one round, without spending any resources.

True. But the knock prone and grapple attempts are not automatically successful. The Ogre has +4 to resist them, which is not inconsiderable.

Also, the fighter is not using a shield and is using a one-handed weapon, decreasing their defence and damage somewhat, and making it impossible to use two weapon fighting (style and feat), shield master feat, great weapon master (feat or style), etc.

Finally, the fighter has to be level 11 or higher to do this (without Action Surge). One attack is taken up with the knock prone attempt, a second with the grapple attempt, and a third with the weapon attack.

Why is an level 11 fighter mucking around grappling an ogre? Just use all three attacks to kill the dam thing and move on to the real challenge.

 

[redkobold]

There should be a straightforward way to address this. What about using the monsters attack bonus (which is its Str bonus and proficiency bonus). Additionally perhaps Large creatures gain Advantage for the Grapple check and Small creatures have Disadvantage on grapple checks. Against your same class size the dis/advantages cancel out and a Small creature grappling a Large creature would really be handicapped.

 

[Caliban]

True. But the knock prone and grapple attempts are not automatically successful. The Ogre has +4 to resist them, which is not inconsiderable.

Also, the fighter is not using a shield and is using a one-handed weapon, decreasing their defence and damage somewhat, and making it impossible to use two weapon fighting (style and feat), shield master feat, great weapon master (feat or style), etc.

Finally, the fighter has to be level 11 or higher to do this (without Action Surge). One attack is taken up with the knock prone attempt, a second with the grapple attempt, and a third with the weapon attack.

Why is an level 11 fighter mucking around grappling an ogre? Just use all three attacks to kill the dam thing and move on to the real challenge.

Or be a lvl 5 frenzied berserker barbarian. Advantage on grapple checks and 3 attacks a round (2 + bonus action attack).

 

[jaelis]

I appreciate the simplicity but feel that it is a bit underdeveloped or not properly communicated. The Tavern Brawler and Grappler Feats don't work all that well and had errors in them that had to be addressed by errata which makes me think it did not get too much playtesting evaluaation.

The feats are certainly problematic.

 

[jaelis]

There should be a straightforward way to address this. What about using the monsters attack bonus (which is its Str bonus and proficiency bonus). Additionally perhaps Large creatures gain Advantage for the Grapple check and Small creatures have Disadvantage on grapple checks. Against your same class size the dis/advantages cancel out and a Small creature grappling a Large creature would really be handicapped.

I would just give monsters Athletics proficiency when it seems appropriate.

 

[jaelis]

For the feats would these revisions look reasonable?

Tavern Brawler:
* +1 to Str or Con.
* Your unarmed strikes do 1d4 damage
* Add your proficiency bonus to attack rolls with improvised weapons.
* Add your proficiency bonus to checks to start or escape a grapple if you would not otherwise do so.

Grappler:
* As an action, you can automatically deal 1d4+Str bludgeoning damage to a creature you are grappling.
* If you hit a creature with your unarmed strike, you can attempt to grapple or shove it as a bonus action.
* When a hostile creature’s movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to attempt to grapple the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack.

 

[DouglasCole]

That is on my "to buy" list but I wanted to take a stab at a modification to the existing 5e grappling first.

One thing I suggested back when Basic 5e had just come out is to simply allow every successful grappling attack to increase the condition level. First you're grappled, then restrained, then incapacitated. Counter-grappling could reduce the level.

That did make it into Dungeon Grappling after a fashion, though I will note I do like the control points/control damage type scheme that is the bulk of the book. But for leaving 5e grappling basically like it is, just let it slide up the conditions scale without requiring the grappler feat.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

Or be a lvl 5 frenzied berserker barbarian. Advantage on grapple checks and 3 attacks a round (2 + bonus action attack).

That's a really good point. It's not just advantage on the grapple check, either, they also get advantage on the knock prone check.

 

[Caliban]

That's a really good point. It's not just advantage on the grapple check, either, they also get advantage on the knock prone check.

Yup. If you really want to optimize for grapple/shove, be a barbarian with 1 level of rogue so you can have Expertise in Athletics, and advantage when raging. And an extra 1d6 damage when you attack your prone+grappled opponent.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Or be a lvl 5 frenzied berserker barbarian. Advantage on grapple checks and 3 attacks a round (2 + bonus action attack).

The exhaustion from frenzy will really cramp your grappling for the rest of the day though, disadvantage on all ability checks isn't that big a deal for traditional melee warriors, but it's crippling for a grappler.

It's a very powerful build for one fight per day