D&D 5E Great Weapon Master: how about -5 AC instead of -5 to hit?

[S'mon]

"Leaving yourself open" IMO is much better reflected by letting adjacent enemies use their Reaction to attack you - ie it grants opp atts. That shouldn't need a Feat though.

 

[Helldritch]

Only to a small extent. I played barbarain (with a few levels of fighter) from levels 1 to 20. My AC started out at 16, and ended at 16. Our healer was a paladin. Modianger was ... not cautious. Like - insanely not cautious. After level 5, he only went to 0 hp once. And this was not due to exceedingly great tactics - he was a blunt weapon, and he always reckless attacked, even against high AC foes. The adventure used an adventure path.

The rage's half damage combined with a warding bond is really effective. Add in heavy armor master and that character is hard to even damage. But easy to bypass. A single wall force spell and that character is shut down.

You're asking how we can abuse this option? Where we get to hit really hard without a decrease in accuracy?

I would not recommend that either.

Alpha strike is a label for one basic combat strategy. It has you get in there and focus on landing the first blow of the combat, and doing so in a way that prevents a counterstrike. Teams that focus on alpha strike are all offense, no defense. It can be exceedingly effective.

If it succeed. When it fails, tough luck.
Also, depends a lot on the 5 MWD (or five minute work day) introduced in 3.xed. This strategy is a sure failure in games where the 3 to 6 encounters per day before a long rest is strictly applied.

For example, I ran a 20th level one shot a couple years back. The fighter/ranger/barbarian/warlock in the party soloed a CR 23 Ancient Blue Dragon in 2 rounds. They dealt over 300 damage in a surprise round, and then finished it off in the second round before it acted.

There are no surprise round in 5ed. Did you reintroduced it? How is the assassin faring in that case?
I am genuingly curious.
Other than that, that dragon should've had at least one round of action. In which said character would have been grabbed and stepped upon. Almost certain death.

While that last example was an example of a one on one - heck no. It is stronger against multiple foes when you get the 'cleave' of a bonus action strike at no penalty to hit on it.

The bonus action is also given on a critical. So a crit seeker might get lucky.

Get a GM to run a one shot so that you can test this out and you should see what I've been saying. When the penalty isn't tied to the offensive bonus, it isn't really a penalty because it can usually be bypassed.

You're fully right on that one. Even the -5 isn't much of a penalty. We housed ruled that if you use it on your turn, all your attacks until your next turn will suffer the -5 to hit, +10 damage. At low level it is a nice deterrent, and even at high level when opponent's AC are getting higher it kinda of restricts it's use. That and the fact that many fights involves casters able to dispel magic... At higher level, I do not commonly make encounters with mono monsters. There will always be at least 3 different types. This makes for very interesting encounters and just boosting a character with a bless spell becomes somewhat of a risk...

 

[Bacon Bits]

Finally! A use for barkskin!

In all seriousness, the solution to fixing -5/+10 is to just change the ability entirely. +10 damage is not an effect you should give out on tap. +3d6 damage to any attack against any target is not a reasonable design. The math is bad, and no matter how you try to compensate for it, it's easy to mitigate to the point where you just use it all the time. That's no longer a choice, and it's no longer interesting. It's a stupid design. Both Sharpshooter and GWM should not have those abilities. If your table has a problem with it, just replace that ability in the feat entirely.

Examples to replace GWM's -5/+10 ability (choose one):

• +1 Strength
• Giant Breaker. When you hit a creature of size Large or larger with a melee attack with a heavy weapon that you are proficient with, you deal an additional 1d6 damage.
• Carry the Momentum. When you miss with a melee attack with a heavy weapon that you are proficient with, you have advantage on the next attack you make against the same target with the same weapon. The attack must be made before the end of your next turn to gain this benefit.
• Shuddering Blows. When you miss with a melee attack with a heavy weapon that you are proficient with, the target takes damage equal to your Strength modifier as long as you did not roll a natural 1 on the attack. The damage is of the same type as the weapon you made the attack with.

Examples to replace Sharpshooter's -5/+10 ability (choose one):

• +1 Dexterity
• Sniper. Ranged weapons you are proficient with gain a new range increment: extreme range. A ranged weapon's extreme range is equal to twice the weapon's long range. Ranged weapon attacks you make at extreme range are made with disadvantage.
• Find the Chink. Your ranged weapon attacks made using a ranged weapon that you are proficient with ignore any damage resistance the target has.
• Ricochet. The first time on your turn that you miss with a ranged weapon attack made with a ranged weapon you are proficient with, you can repeat the attack against a different target that is adjacent to the original target. This additional attack is made using the same ammunition as the attack that missed, but the new target has resistance to the damage from this attack.

 

[Mirtek]

IMO would only make the feat stronger.

 

[NaturalZero]

Some is looking to change the Power Attack feat to Shock Trooper, I see. Feels like 2007 again.

 

[Bill Zebub]

In general I like risk/reward mechanics. So I can imagine a power attack move that if you miss gives enemies advantage to hit you until your next turn (or the aforementioned opportunity attacks). And maybe it comes with a further option that lets you choose to attack with disadvantage, and if you hit it does even more damage (auto crit?), with the same consequences if you miss.

I think these kinds of risky options (as opposed to non-risky but resource constrained options) should be built into the Fighter class).

 

[ECMO3]

I've just been watching a Matt Easton video about poleaxes and he makes the point that if you make a power blow you leave yourself open. Especially if you miss. In D&D terms this would be equivalent to giving opponents Advantage or -5 AC. I think in this case that -5 AC is much more game-friendly as Advantage against someone with an AC of 20+ isn't so hot and it allows Advantage and Disadvantage on top. And the Shield spell. Has anyone experimented with this?

I don't think it would work well because of the mobile feat, cunning action, misty step and other ways to disengage without being targeted/

 

[ECMO3]

For example, I ran a 20th level one shot a couple years back. The fighter/ranger/barbarian/warlock in the party soloed a CR 23 Ancient Blue Dragon in 2 rounds. They dealt over 300 damage in a surprise round, and then finished it off in the second round before it acted.
While that last example was an example of a one on one - heck no. It is stronger against multiple foes when you get the 'cleave' of a bonus action strike at no penalty to hit on it.

How did they surprise an ancient blue dragon?

 

[Blue]

How long would it last? Next attack? That could be a reasonable trade. An entire round? One would be foolish to take it.

That's why no barbarian every ever uses Reckless Attack. Grant Advantage (about a +5 to hit for a 50/50 hit/miss - the equivilent of -5 to AC) for an entire round.

Oh wait, they do it all the time. It's one of their signature moves.

 

[Staffan]

A problem with using defense penalties as a balance for attack bonuses is that they are irrelevant if you are not attacked. So if you can skirmish about and hit the enemy and then go away to where they won't be able to hit back, there is essentially no penalty.

An alternative that would really bring up the "shields down" aspect of GWM is that using it lets the target make an attack against you, potentially with advantage. That wouldn't work very well for Sharpshooter though.