Greatsword: To mercurial or not to mercurial?

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Hey Creeperman

As for Knockdown, actually, no, it doesn't provoke a counter-trip. While you do use the trip mechanics to resolve the attempt, you are not making an actual trip attack. A normal Trip is actually a special unarmed touch attack (or melee touch attack with a weapon that has the "trip" option in its description), while Knockdown is a normal melee attack with whatever weapon you used the score the hit, using a normal attack roll (provided you inflict the requisite ten points of damage).

This is how I always pictured it as well. It's kind of like getting smacked in the chest by an Iron Golem, only someone with this feat can knock you down. I figure a normal failed trip attack provokes a trip attack against you because you opened your defenses in order to knock your opponent on his butt. However, with the knockdown feat, you aren't opening your defenses. You swing your warhammer, smack someone really hard, and they fall or don't fall. Simple as that in my head. I haven't found any rules that say contrary, but neither have I found any rules that say this is how it works. But it's good enough for me until some kind of official response/errata is released.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Originally posted by Psifon
Merc. Greatsword has been errata-ed so that you only do 2d6 with a X2 critical...

Where is this? I haven't seen anything that changed the critical for it, just the damage.

--Errata-Searching Spikey

 

[Wolf72]

Where is this? I haven't seen anything that changed the critical for it, just the damage.

--Errata-Searching Spikey

don't search to long, I think Psifon might have made a wee mistake on the second part. If the crit doesn't change then all you have is a greatsword that requires an ex wp feat ... I'll just use a regular greatsword with the same stats (and weighs less) thank you ...

the full blade is 19-20/x2 I believe (and 2d8 dmg)

 

[Ravellion]

True Weapon Masters use Great Scimitars from Dragon #275... 2d6, 18-20 x2, now there's a weapon worthy of the master's attention...

Rav

 

[Psifon]

Whoops I did it again!

Sorry Spikey, my mistake, that should have read:

2d6 with a X4 critical

Rav, true weaponmasters would if our gaming group used variant rules from the dragon. However we decided to limit ourselves to published rules only (especially when it comes to anything that pertains to character creation -this is dangerous ground to mess with).

 

[Creeperman]

Re: Re: Re: Hey Creeperman

I completely and utterly agree that this is the way it should work.

Unfortunately, that is not what the rules say. Nor have I found any errata to change the feat, except to say that you MAY get a free trip attack, instead of you DO get a free trip attack. Basically, you can decide not to use the trip attack if you don' want to risk getting tripped in turn. This means the feat is ONLY useful against bipedal, medium-sized creatures who are (hopefully) weaker than you.

If it didn't work this way, I would certainly take the feat in a minute. My advise to you Creeperman is to ask your DM if you can change feats.

Excuse me? Why should I change feats? I explained how it works, which is similar to the monsterous Knockdown ability in the MM (I believe it's under Dire Wolf?), and this is how it is played in my campaign.

Of course, if your DM feels like nerfing the feat into uselessness, however, by all means don't touch it.

And the only errata I'm aware of regarding this feat states that you don't get a free follow-up attack from Improved Trip after successfully using Knockdown, which weakens the feat enough, IMO.

 

[Ravellion]

Re: Whoops I did it again!

Sorry Spikey, my mistake, that should have read:

2d6 with a X4 critical

Rav, true weaponmasters would if our gaming group used variant rules from the dragon. However we decided to limit ourselves to published rules only (especially when it comes to anything that pertains to character creation -this is dangerous ground to mess with).

I hear ya. It is interesting though, that the weapons in Dragon originally were far better designed and balanced than anything in Sword and Fist at the time of release (Dragon 275 was the second 3rd edition Dragon)

I allow stuff on a case by case basis. The spells are often quite good.

Rav

 

[drowdude]

True Weapon Masters use Great Scimitars from Dragon #275... 2d6, 18-20 x2, now there's a weapon worthy of the master's attention...

Rav

Yeah, but a Heavy Mercurial Great Scimitar would be even better

 

[Psifon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Hey Creeperman

Of course, if your DM feels like nerfing the feat into uselessness, however, by all means don't touch it.

And the only errata I'm aware of regarding this feat states that you don't get a free follow-up attack from Improved Trip after successfully using Knockdown, which weakens the feat enough, IMO.

This is not about what my DM allows, it is about what the rules say. Again, I agree that it SHOULD work the way that you say, but it doesn't. A trip attack is defined in the PHB as being something that your foe can do back to you if you fail. The Knockdown feat allows a free trip attack. Period. There is no special exeption to the return trip, so you DO suffer it. Period.

That's just the way the rule was written. There doesn't need to be any eratta, because they didn't make an error. The feat is not useless, you just have to be careful how you use it. It works better on people than on horses for instance, and dragons are right out. On the other hand, if you also take Prone fighting, you won't care if you are tripped in turn as well. So there are ways around this, you just have to spend the feats.