D&D 5E Greg Leeds talks about D&D

[MechaPilot]

One of the issues I had with 3E power creep was that I simply did not have the time to read every new sourcebook--whether from WotC or a 3rd Party product--that landed on the store shelves.

Of course DMs have the right to limit content, but if a DM is going to make that decision he or she out to take the time to read and understand the content. Spending $20-$40 on a book just to have a DM say no without so much as a look at it is bad form.

Who is buying a $20-$40 book with the assumption that they can use it in their game without first talking to the DM? Certainly not someone who thinks that $20-$40 is a significant expense or they would have asked first. And what DM who places restrictions on content isn't telling the players ahead of time? That sounds like a DM who is just begging for a misunderstanding. For example, I don't allow teleportation; if someone wants to play a caster, I tell them about that restriction so they don't expect to be able to get that ability several levels down the line only to be disappointed.

All you are describing is a player buying a book without thinking, or a player buying a book because the DM didn't make it clear what was allowed and what was not allowed ahead of time. In both situations, you have one careless person creating a problem for someone else. Careless people do that all the time, and it's their own fault, not the fault of the options they impulse-purchased or forgot to say was banned. Hopefully the one who bought the book kept his receipt so he can at least get store credit out of it.

Spending $20-$40 on a book just to have a DM say no without so much as a look at it is bad form.

Bad form for the player. You don't get to force the answer you want from someone just because you went ahead and did something without their permission. Now if the DM didn't make her position clear ahead of time, then she's the careless jerk.

It's not as simple as issuing a yes or no.

It really is almost exactly that simple. Let me use myself and my players as an example.

The players can use any option in the PHB except for the handful of things (such as long-range teleportation) that I have specifically excluded. That is all that I guarantee I will allow. If they want to use something else, they can ask me about it, and I will give it due consideration. I may say "no." I may say "yes." Or, I may say "yes, but with modifications or conditions." I have made that very clear to them, and none of them expect that they can get me to okay something just because they shelled out cash for it. What they spend their own money on is really none of my business.

 

[Corpsetaker]

I also just want to say that most people would buy the book anyway even through a DM may say they can't use it this game. People are acting like their next game is going to be their last.

The arguments are really getting absurd.

 

[darjr]

ah well, we'll just ave to disagree.

It is working for them, and they are not the only ones. Look at the success that goodman games is having with DCC, and they only have the single core book (note, I love that game, this is partly why). Folks have been playing AD&D and OD&D for years and years and years with hardly a new option, and those are third party.

I'll bet that WotC is listening, and can be convinced, but you haven't been very convincing yet, imho. The Just Say No option was always available, and yet the splat growth still caused problems. Over and over again the splat growth, even ones from companies that are doing the SLOW approach, seems to be untenable for a company, and has been bad for the game, imho.

 

[Corpsetaker]

ah well, we'll just ave to disagree.

It is working for them, and they are not the only ones. Look at the success that goodman games is having with DCC, and they only have the single core book (note, I love that game, this is partly why). Folks have been playing AD&D and OD&D for years and years and years with hardly a new option, and those are third party.

I'll bet that WotC is listening, and can be convinced, but you haven't been very convincing yet, imho. The Just Say No option was always available, and yet the splat growth still caused problems. Over and over again the splat growth, even ones from companies that are doing the SLOW approach, seems to be untenable for a company, and has been bad for the game, imho.

What's working for them is cutting their overhead.

 

[Corpsetaker]

ah well, we'll just ave to disagree.

It is working for them, and they are not the only ones. Look at the success that goodman games is having with DCC, and they only have the single core book (note, I love that game, this is partly why). Folks have been playing AD&D and OD&D for years and years and years with hardly a new option, and those are third party.

I'll bet that WotC is listening, and can be convinced, but you haven't been very convincing yet, imho. The Just Say No option was always available, and yet the splat growth still caused problems. Over and over again the splat growth, even ones from companies that are doing the SLOW approach, seems to be untenable for a company, and has been bad for the game, imho.

What you seem to be forgetting is that Wizards is there to maximize their profits. This has nothing to do with putting out so much product that they were in the red. They just weren't making the profits the suits wanted.

 

[darjr]

What's working for them is cutting their overhead.

You did read the part where they are hiring? Is there a smaller crew from the height of 4e or 3e? I think so, but remember it's exactly what WotC was going to do with D&D originally. As a business it just cant support the splat treadmill nor the staff to support it. The game and hobby needs to grow organically, not by artificial splat bloat. That seems to be their plan, and it seems to be working.

 

[Morrus]

What you seem to be forgetting is that Wizards is there to maximize their profits.

That's not entirely true. They, like every business, have multiple goals. Nobody decides that the way to maximize profits is to produce tabletop role playing games. There are much easier ways to make money.

 

[Shasarak]

Yea, what if players want it. What if it could be cool. What if there are a few options you'd like. That answer of yours is a non answer.

What I am hearing is, WotC should not produce any more material because players might want to use it.

But that can not possibly be right.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

Who is buying a $20-$40 book with the assumption that they can use it in their game without first talking to the DM?

Who said anything about a player buying a book with the assumption that it would be allowed?

I know I certainly didn't.

Players purchase books with the hopes of using the content. They purchase books to collect them. They purchase books to get ideas for their characters or to save for later when it's their turn to be the DM.

This isn't anything new, just like the fact that the game costs money isn't new.

Of course a DM is free to be a jerk, if he or she wants, by not caring about what interests his or her players or what they went through to get their hands on a book. Jerk DMs are part of the game too, and they serve a valuable purpose: to teach players who to avoid gaming with.

The players can use any option in the PHB except for the handful... (snip) ...spend their own money on is really none of my business.

Funny...my post advised DMs to review content in lieu of flatly refusing a player for the sake of refusing a player.

I'm not exactly sure how a DM is supposed to give "due consideration" (your words, mind) to a product neither the DM or the player owns, but I don't know, maybe you have psychic powers that other DMs aren't blessed with?

 

[Shasarak]

That's not entirely true. They, like every business, have multiple goals. Nobody decides that the way to maximize profits is to produce tabletop role playing games. There are much easier ways to make money.

That would be a surprising attitude for a tabletop role playing game company to take if true.