GREYHAWK 3E to 4E: Do I need a world-shaking event?

[dead]

I'm currently running a Greyhawk campaign under the 3E rules but was planning to make the move to 4E.

I've run the campaign through every edition of D&D. When we updated from 1E to 2E I had no world-shaking event as the rules changes were just so minimal. When 3E came along, I was considering a world-shaking event as the rules changes seemed more significant but, in the end, decided against it. This was a good decision as it only took us 5 or 6 sessions after updating to soon forget we'd updated at all - ie. the update from 2E to 3E wasn't that disruptive after a small teething period. There were a few things that would crop up in-game but it wasn't too hard to explain the changes.

Anyway, here I am again. 4E has been released and I'd like to update in the near future. I haven't read the rules yet but, from what I've heard, the rules changes are quite extensive. And, whether we like it or not, game rules that lay the foundation of such things as magic and special powers inevitably translate to our descriptions of the world.

If we go by the new treatment of the Forgotten Realms, it would seem the answer is yes - I do need a world-shaking event. However, TSR went for a world-shaking event to bridge 1E and 2E with the Time of Troubles which, IMO, was unnecessary.

Ideally I'd like my campaign to continue from its current date. No big jumps forward in time or jumps back in time to reboot the setting - I just want the campaign to progress as it's always progressed - year by year.

So, realistically, would a world-shaking event be necessary to explain the rules changes in-game when I update to 4E?

 

[S'mon]

I wouldn't bother with the disruption, unless there is something in your personal Greyhawk that can only be dealt with that way. Eg if for some reason Vancian magic is closely tied to your setting, changing to at-will/encounter/daily may need an explanation. Normally though whenever I change the magic rules I just say "The Magic Flux/Spell Weave/Ley Lines has/have shifted" and leave it at that. I treat it as similar to a shift in the Earth's magnetic field. A really big shift might equate to a reversal of polarity (which IRL causes some major disruption), but doesn't have to.

Edit:When it comes to statting out non-magical NPCs, I don't see a problem in changing 3.5e Barbarians to Fighters or Warlords, or for spellcasters Druids to Clerics, etc. Just make sure their relative power level stays similar; probably you just change a Bbn-10 to Ftr-10, but if you want certain NPCs to retain access to certain signature spell abilities you might have to tweak it upwards, say 3e level x1.5 = 4e level.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I don't think a world-shaking event is necessary. Yes, the rule changes are substantial, but the changes don't seem like you really need to change the entire world.

Clerics still worship gods. Wizards still cast spells. The only new thing is now that some "classic" spells are now rituals.

A stronger difference might be the way Teleportation magic and Flight has changed - you will have later and more limited access to make long-distance travels with them. If your Greyhawk campaign featured a lot of teleporting and overland flights, you might notice the changes.

Even Bigby, Mordekainen and Tenser are still around in the 4E spells!

Of course, if you want to shake up your campaign world a little, you could still do it. (Especially if you have any kinds of 3E supplements dealing with comets falling or gods dying - like those from Malhavoc Press).

We converted our Savage Tides campaign mid-stream, and the changes weren't all that jarring. The world still goes on, even if no one in the party can cast Teleport.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

As long as your group is willing to accept a tiny bit of hand-waving, you should do fine.

 

[NiTessine]

In my view, campaign settings need big world-changing events to mark edition switches like Mona Lisa needs an extra layer of paint.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

In my view, campaign settings need big world-changing events to mark edition switches like Mona Lisa needs an extra layer of paint.

Amen. Every WSE at edition change applied to FR has in my opinion been heavy-handed and unnecessary. Simply present the world as it is under the new rules. No tap dancing for in-game reason for meta-game components is required.

 

[mearls]

I'm running 4e Greyhawk, as is I believe at least one other person in the office, and I had no need for a world changing event. I tweaked a few things, but in play I haven't noticed any disconnect in the setting and, say, the change in how magic works.

Keep in mind, I use the 1983 boxed set as the basis for my campaigns, but I don't think From the Ashes really alters that approach.

I integrated tieflings as common in the Great Kingdom, and tweaked the Horned Society (the name is a perfect fit!) to also make it tiefling friendly.

Dragonborn require a little more finesse. No one in my campaign plays one, so I haven't made it a big issue, but I've set them up as originating from south of Hepmonaland. They're independent adventurers and mercenary companies who serve in small numbers in most of the major states.

For the points of light feel, I've emphasized the dangers that lurk between the established towns, but I've always run GH that way.

 

[Wycen]

Ideas based on Greyhawk stuff from previous editions:

Vecna's ascension from demi-god to full blown god, ala Die Vecna Die, etc.

A twist on the Age of Worms ending.

A twist on the Savage Tide ending.

Something involving Iggwilv and the moon?

Tovag Baragu?

The Doomgrinder?

None have to be 'world' shaking, just big enough to change the campaign area you players are dealing with.

 

[Shemeska]

In my view, campaign settings need big world-changing events to mark edition switches like Mona Lisa needs an extra layer of paint.

I'll give that a second Amen.

 

[S'mon]

As Mearls said, I think Tieflings fit right into the eviller, demon/devil-haunted areas of the Flanaess, especially if you call them Cambions and Alu-Demons.

Dragonborn as an established society are a bit of a stretch though, I think I'd either leave them out or have them as rare individuals, the product of human/dragon mating or even a mad wizard's experiment.

One possibility I've considered is keeping both but have them look basically human, so they can interact with human society without changing Greyhawk's humanocentric character. Human-looking companies of Dragonborn mercenaries and secretly devil-descended Tieflings in the Great Kingdom work better than the Jim Henson/Mos Eisley cantina approach for most of Greyhawk, IMO. The Horned Society and possibly Land of Iuz can probably accommodate actual horned tieflings though, they could even be Iuz's own children.