D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[Micah Sweet]

Boring stuff that can be thrown out to make room for stuff that is actually relevant.

Is there a way you can express your opinion that is less aggressive and insulting to those who don't agree with you? If so, please find it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Unnecessary. The option that requires the least amount of work, and therefore to be promoted, is that anything the players want to play is allowed.

Work it out with the player.

Gods and pantheons are far beyond what newbie DMs should be doing. Not to mention the possibility of offence if you happen to parody a player's real world beliefs.

These a matters for individuals, not societies.

Are you just against settings altogether? You seem to have nothing good to say about the concept of worldbuilding in a thread about the forthcoming worldbuilding chapter in the 5.2 DMG.

And people say I'm too negative.

 

[Hussar]

The point is that you don't place specifics but you have a general idea and vibe in your mind of how the world works so you can provide a consistent and engaging world to the players when they ask or interact with it.

You think about how dwarf Npcs acts or where druid might be or how the hobgoblin villains fight so both you and the players have a similar mindset of how the world works.

It's just like drawing a map of the continent.

You don't fill in everything. But if your players come with a elf fighter, dwarf cleric, Halfling sorcerer, and dragonborn paladin, you know where those 8 aspects are on the map or plot them after you get their sheets.

See, I'd much rather they took the Moldvay/Winneger approach to world building. Where do those characters come from? They come from the town that you're starting in. Continent? Drawing a map of a continent? That should be so far down the list of things to advise a new DM to do that it proably wouldn't even be in the same book. Who needs a whole continent? You barely need an area the size of a country.

Look, 5e did do one thing. It proved that you don't actually need huge settings. Most of the AP's are set within a relatively small part of the Sword Coast. Yes, there's exceptions like Tomb of Annihilation, but, you can run a large chunk of AP's in the area from Baldur's Gate to the 10 Towns and about 400 miles from the coast. It's a big area, but, a LOT smaller than a continent.

I look at the Moldvay Expert book as the gold standard here. The entire description of the Known World is limited to what, 10 pages? That was it. That was the whole Known World. Gods? Don't need 'em. You're a cleric? You tell me who your god is. You're a Warlock? You tell me who your patron is. Get the players to get off their asses and do the work for a change. Make sure that world building is a group effort and the work can be shared around. That's what I hope they will teach the next batch of DM's and players. Not this horrid idea that there is a sharp divide between DM and player and ne'er the twain shall meet.

 

[Parmandur]

Look, 5e did do one thing. It proved that you don't actually need huge settings. Most of the AP's are set within a relatively small part of the Sword Coast. Yes, there's exceptions like Tomb of Annihilation, but, you can run a large chunk of AP's in the area from Baldur's Gate to the 10 Towns and about 400 miles from the coast. It's a big area, but, a LOT smaller than a continent.

Not that I disagree with your broader point, but...the area detailed in the SCAG is larger than Europe, or the Flannaes for that matter.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The point is that you don't place specifics but you have a general idea and vibe in your mind of how the world works so you can provide a consistent and engaging world to the players when they ask or interact with it.

You think about how dwarf Npcs acts or where druid might be or how the hobgoblin villains fight so both you and the players have a similar mindset of how the world works.

This comes under the category of "running the game", not worldbuilding. There is nothing that needs writing down, and nothing that doesn't have a default "generic fantasy" answer.

It's just like drawing a map of the continent.

No, it isn't. You can't draw a map with vague thoughts.

You don't fill in everything. But if your players come with a elf fighter, dwarf cleric, Halfling sorcerer, and dragonborn paladin, you know where those 8 aspects are on the map or plot them after you get their sheets.

No reason the PCs have to come from anywhere that is on your map.

 

[MGibster]

There are some different philosophies when it comes to world building. I don't build worlds for the sake of building worlds, I build them for the expressed purpose of adventures. Which means there are big, big gaps in my world because I don't bothering asking or answering questions unless it has something to do with the adventure. In the case of a published setting, they can include some of that stuff because it can inspire some adventure ideas.

I ran a Hell on Earth campaign years ago centered on a survival community in Little Rock, Arkansas. At one session, a player asked me all sorts of demographic questions.

Player: How many people are here?
Me: About 5,000.
Player: How many fighting adults?
Me: About 150 full time fighting adults but the community can press more into service in emergencies.
Player: How many children?
Me: About 1,500 and the mortality rate is pretty high.
Player: You're just now making this up, aren't you?
Me: Yup.

I don't generally ask questions of the setting I don't think I need answers for.

 

[TiQuinn]

See, I'd much rather they took the Moldvay/Winneger approach to world building. Where do those characters come from? They come from the town that you're starting in. Continent? Drawing a map of a continent? That should be so far down the list of things to advise a new DM to do that it proably wouldn't even be in the same book. Who needs a whole continent? You barely need an area the size of a country.

Look, 5e did do one thing. It proved that you don't actually need huge settings. Most of the AP's are set within a relatively small part of the Sword Coast. Yes, there's exceptions like Tomb of Annihilation, but, you can run a large chunk of AP's in the area from Baldur's Gate to the 10 Towns and about 400 miles from the coast. It's a big area, but, a LOT smaller than a continent.

I look at the Moldvay Expert book as the gold standard here. The entire description of the Known World is limited to what, 10 pages? That was it. That was the whole Known World. Gods? Don't need 'em. You're a cleric? You tell me who your god is. You're a Warlock? You tell me who your patron is. Get the players to get off their asses and do the work for a change. Make sure that world building is a group effort and the work can be shared around. That's what I hope they will teach the next batch of DM's and players. Not this horrid idea that there is a sharp divide between DM and player and ne'er the twain shall meet.

Whenever someone starts going on about needing to know the size of continents or political landscapes or even the pantheon of gods AND are complaining about their worldbuilding taking too long, is too hard, players not engaging, whatever, this is exactly what I think about. Worldbuilding to me is best served from the bottom up because the players care primarily about the game.

And frankly, there are now so many other places to learn worldbuilding now. I don't think we should pretend that the DMG exists in a vacuum where Running the Game on Matt Colville's YouTube channel doesn't exist, or Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master by Mike Shea doesn't exist.

 

[Minigiant]

This comes under the category of "running the game", not worldbuilding. There is nothing that needs writing down, and nothing that doesn't have a default "generic fantasy" answer

That's world building.

You are building the world to run the game.

 

[Hussar]

Whenever someone starts going on about needing to know the size of continents or political landscapes or even the pantheon of gods AND are complaining about their worldbuilding taking too long, is too hard, players not engaging, whatever, this is exactly what I think about. Worldbuilding to me is best served from the bottom up because the players care primarily about the game.

And frankly, there are now so many other places to learn worldbuilding now. I don't think we should pretend that the DMG exists in a vacuum where Running the Game on Matt Colville's YouTube channel doesn't exist, or Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master by Mike Shea doesn't exist.

That is a point too. There are a lot of resources out there. But I do think that the DMG should hit the basics. “This is the stuff you need to do right now” sort of advice.

 

[Hussar]

Not that I disagree with your broader point, but...the area detailed in the SCAG is larger than Europe, or the Flannaes for that matter.

True. But most of the adventures don’t use all that space. And almost none of the single adventures come close.