D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[Cadence]

That just isn't true. Basic, Advanced, and everything after actively engaged players learning the rules.

The 1e DMG (which included the saving throw and combat tables) seems very strongly aimed just for DMs.

The 2e DMG is similar sounding (but note that combat, for example, is in the PHB):

Moldvay Basic disagrees on the separation:

 

[Vaalingrade]

Ebberon might be on the list simply because it is the coolest setting, bar none, but I wouldn't say "is very cool and therefore very exciting to explore" is enough to make it newbie friendly. It has a lot of lore after all.

That would be part fo the grand D&D tradition of "You're new, so you don't deserve interesting things".

 

[Hussar]

The 1e DMG (which included the saving throw and combat tables) seems very strongly aimed just for DMs.

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The 2e DMG is similar sounding (but note that combat, for example, is in the PHB):
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Moldvay Basic disagrees on the separation:
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Pretty much all of this. Plus the whole goalkeeper/striker analogy. Because it’s not quite the right one. The better analogy for how DnD is presented is Manager/Player.

I’d love it if it was presented as goal keeper/striker.

 

[deganawida]

The 1e DMG (which included the saving throw and combat tables) seems very strongly aimed just for DMs.

View attachment 364524
View attachment 364525

The 2e DMG is similar sounding (but note that combat, for example, is in the PHB):
View attachment 364530

View attachment 364531

Moldvay Basic disagrees on the separation:
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Moldvay was a visionary.

 

[MNblockhead]

There seems to be a disconnect. Either D&D’s target audience age is not what they say it is, or what products people think that age group gravitates towards is very wrong. I don’t think Strixhaven and Ravnica were specifically written for kids - I’m not sure why anyone would think those settings would appeal to them more than say, Forgotten Realms or Planescape. Also, if one of the big reasons that 5e was initially successful was because it went back to its roots after 4e tried to make a hard right turn away from its sacred cows, wouldn’t that suggest that the younger demographic also cared about that?

For Ravnica, broadening the audience by offering a Magic: The Gathering setting probably as a large part of it. Whether it was successful in doing so, I don't know. I expect that the Critical Role setting and adventure books did more to bring new players than the MtG settings, but that's just a gut feeling.

I really liked Ravnica, in part because I thought it was an interesting setting, but also because it was new to D&D. Updatting older settings for 5e is also nice, but D&D has so much history and old adventures and settings that they could just keep recycling them for new generations. I would rather that ALSO continue to offer new settings and new adventures.

Personally, I feel WotC has done a good job balancing bringing back the old and bringing in the new. That's probably why both sides are complaining. "They keep recycling old material and have no new ideas!" "Why have they forsaking X setting? Why don't they care about long-time fans."

It seems like everyone is complaining but they are still keeping 5e quite profitable. They are doing something right, even if it isn't fully pleasing any one contingent of the fandom.

But since not complaining means I'm doing the Interet wrong, I will make one complaint. I think there cadence for releasing new settings is about right, but I wish they would offer more adventure support for the different settings. Though, as I type this, I realize that one thing I keep forgetting is Adventurer's League. There is a LOT of 5e adventuring material. Each season tends to be tied to their big physical adventure book and/or setting release. These basically serve a similar role that thin adventure modules served in the "old days." And, HEY, it is actually official 5e content that WotC offers in PDF format. But we still complain. But I'm not giving up on my complaining just yet. While I don't expect that they will release an expensive, hard cover book of adventures with every setting they publish, I would like to see the AL adventures in DDB. THAT would be awesome! And would end this complaint for me.

I mean, I will still find other things to complain about. I am a D&D fan after all.

 

[MNblockhead]

That doesn't seem to follow to me.

The site I was looking through divided things into categories, but I think this still speaks pretty strongly.

Adventures: The most recent stuff set somewhere new was Journey's through the Radiant Citadel, in July 2022, two years ago. Since then we've had Stormwrack set in FR (2022), Dragonlance (2022), Reprint of Tyranny of Dragons (2023), Keys from the Golden Vault, mostly set in FR (2023), Shattered Obelisk set in FR (2023) and coming up we have Vecna and the Infnite Staircase, both of which are classics.

Settings: If you don't count Radiant Citadel or Dragonlance since they were mainly adventure books, the most recent was Strixhavem in December 2021, since then we had both Spelljammer (2022) and Planescape (2023)

Supplements: We haven't had a non-traditional supplement book. Since 2021 we have had Fizban's (2021), Mordenkainen Presents (2022), Bigby (2023) and the book focused on the Deck of Many things (2024)

So... if your theory is correct, this pendulum swing started TWO YEARS ago. Which, incidentally, is also when they announced plans for the 50th anniversary, which might be a better explanation for why the sudden increase in classic material.

But, even IF, even IF the pendulum swing theory holds water... I'm not sure it accounts for the disparity of looking at the whole of the product list.

• There are 8 books in the supplement category, all focus on Classic DnD
• There are 10 adventure setting books. In order they are Sword Coast (FR), Ravnica, Acquisitions Inc (FR), Eberron, Wildemount (Critical Role), Theros, Ravenloft, Strixhaven, Spelljammer, Planescape. You could throw Radiant Citadel inbetween Strixhaven and Spelljammer and Dragonlance between Spelljammer and PLacescape if you wanted.

The same pattern kind of extends to the adventures. There were 27 adventure books put out. Only four or five of them are not classic DnD. In fact, 17 of them are set in the Forgotten Realms.

In total, out of 48 books released in the last 10 years, I'd argue that only about Eight books were not classical DnD books. Ravnica, Theros, Strixhaven, Radiant Citadel, Stranger Things adventure, Rick & Morty Adventure, and the two Critical Role books which are VERY VERY close to classical DnD.

It seems much more like the new material was sort of slotted in where they could get it, while the majority of their releases whent with classic tie-ins to classical DnD. So this idea that they've bled fans by putting out too much that is not classical DnD seems to hold no water. It is barely one-fifth of their releases over 10 years.

The ratio is even far less if you consider Adventurer's League content. It is pretty much all for the classic settings. The AL subcategories one have three options, all classic settings. Unless I'm missing something obvious, ALL of the AL content is set in classic settings. You can find content for Ravnica, for example, but it isn't AL/WotC listed as the publisher.

 

[Chaosmancer]

No, quite the contrary: the whole thing is small and compact. The Mentir Vale is less "small" and more "nonexistant".

We have different ideas of "small". The entire history of every county and region of interest in Greyhawk is far too much for most people to digest in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That's not why to me.

Eh, I was making guesses.

But the biggest reasons to me are

1. They have the ALL 2024 PHB races ingrained in the setting with each their own cultures, societies, and character hooks.
2. They have the ALL 2024 PHB classes and subclasses ingrained in the setting with each their own traditions, practices, and character hooks.

I see no reason why Greyahwk wouldn't.

1. They are not linked to "flooding the setting with outside stuff to make it cool"

I don't see how this is true for Greyhawk, other than people who are going to obviously misunderstand things on purpose. And those people would just complain anyways.

1. They are themed at Heroic Fantasy which is closer to the base 5e rules than Greyhawk's Sword and Sorcery

Opinion, and not sure what this has to do with whether or not it is easier to teach new GMs how to world-build.

1. Their playstyles are closer to how the majority of people who would use the DMG;s advice would run the game.

This is very much not true for Strixhaven, and a big reason I think that setting has struggled. Magic School is great for books. IT is REALLY hard to run in the way most people would want to run a DnD game. It can be done, obviously, but it is way harder.

1. They closer match the "SPELLS! SPELLS! SPELLS!" and Magic loot style WOTC pushes in game design.
2. The setting have explained empty spaces for injection of adventure books with the need of for heavy overland travel

Don't see how any of these are not true for Greyhawk as well. Nothing about running in Greyhawk means I can't give out magical loot, it is the original setting where the term Monty Haul was coined.

 

[Chaosmancer]

But since not complaining means I'm doing the Interet wrong, I will make one complaint. I think there cadence for releasing new settings is about right, but I wish they would offer more adventure support for the different settings. Though, as I type this, I realize that one thing I keep forgetting is Adventurer's League. There is a LOT of 5e adventuring material. Each season tends to be tied to their big physical adventure book and/or setting release. These basically serve a similar role that thin adventure modules served in the "old days." And, HEY, it is actually official 5e content that WotC offers in PDF format. But we still complain. But I'm not giving up on my complaining just yet. While I don't expect that they will release an expensive, hard cover book of adventures with every setting they publish, I would like to see the AL adventures in DDB. THAT would be awesome! And would end this complaint for me.

I think you hit a nail on the head here. No one seems to talk much about the various new settings WoTC has released, but also WoTC has kind of let them languish. I would be really interested to see a Theros set of adventures, or something set in Strixhaven.

As I noted when I went through that list, the majority of the adventures released have been set in the Forgotten Realms, which is fine, but we should expand a little and show off some of the other places in the multiverse.

 

[JEB]

I think you hit a nail on the head here. No one seems to talk much about the various new settings WoTC has released, but also WoTC has kind of let them languish. I would be really interested to see a Theros set of adventures, or something set in Strixhaven.

It's pretty surprising we haven't seen more for the Radiant Citadel worlds on DM Guild after that initial push.