D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[Chaosmancer]

To teach DMs how to play they game.

You seem to be confused. The chapter in the DMG is about teaching DMs how to build a world. The Player's Handbook will cover most of how to play the game, and the Encounter Building and Adventure building chapters will cover the rest.

Yeah. At High Level.

5e and the 2024 version will have players as big mall of world changing power and coursing with magic at level one.

Many races get spells.
Magic is a feat away
Most of the subclasses of no casters give magic or warp reality by level THREE.

PCs can slaughter evil humaniod scout parties without a sweat.

This warped the sensibilities and themes of zeroes becoming major forces later that most old setting ran on because they were built on 1e or 2e.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm confused. Wasn't Greyhawk the official setting for 3.X? The edition of the game with CoDzilla? The edition of the game where the scaling was so insane a DC 60 check to run on clouds was viable, and people made characters of tremendously monstrous power?

PCs slaughtering evil humanoids is a given at most levels, and the rest of this seems to be focused on this idea that country-rulers can't compete. When I'm pretty sure the former mayor of the Free City of Greyhawk ascended ot become a God, the ruler of the evil country is a Demi-God who fought Vecna, Vecna CAME from Greyhawk.... I don't think the setting is going to shatter like a glass plate at the power of a 3rd level 5e character any more than any other setting has.

Limiting info load on new players.

Sure, they could do that... or they could take those elements as the things that make the setting different and emphasize them. Prevent that whole Catch-22 you were talking about where any setting must become the Forgotten Realms.

BBEGs meant to be defeated, NPC relationships, weaving personal side quests into the main plot.

The Archmages, liches, warrior kings, and wandering NPC parties.

Nothing in Greyhawk prevents any of this? Half the BBEGs in the various books STARTED in Greyhawk.

 

[Remathilis]

I'll admit I don't know much about Greyhawk, but there's a joke that goes something like, in Greyhawk, at 10th level, you're building your own kingdom. In the Realms, at 10th level, you're doing fetch quests for Elminster. So if this hypothetical/upcoming Greyhawk book spent time discussing kingdom management, diplomacy and warfare with other kingdoms, gaining followers, and things like that, that would help give the setting a distinct feeling. Or if not kingdom management, then something that emphasizes how the PCs are becoming important movers and shakers in the world as they rise in level.

That might be a good mix with the Bastion rules, also in the DMG.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'll admit I don't know much about Greyhawk, but there's a joke that goes something like, in Greyhawk, at 10th level, you're building your own kingdom. In the Realms, at 10th level, you're doing fetch quests for Elminster. So if this hypothetical/upcoming Greyhawk book spent time discussing kingdom management, diplomacy and warfare with other kingdoms, gaining followers, and things like that, that would help give the setting a distinct feeling. Or if not kingdom management, then something that emphasizes how the PCs are becoming important movers and shakers in the world as they rise in level.

Likewise, Greyhawk is supposed to be lower magic than the Realms are. If the adventure they produced for it is primarily non-magical in nature, meaning things like warfare or courtly intrigue or murder mysteries rather than plane-hopping or evil curses or gods causing endless night, and care is taken to ensure that casters can't instantly solve every problem through magic, that would also ensure that Greyhawk is distinct.

Edit: And I can't believe that I forgot the spaceship. If Greyhawk really leaned into that and had the spaceship actually affect the setting in weird ways, that would also make it distinct. Heck, it could be an excuse to allow any species from any supplement, saying that they're mutations caused by the spaceship's radiation.

Honestly, even if Greyhawk isn't it, there is value I think in a 5e setting adhering to the style of play prevalent when Greyhawk was released, with a focus on domain management, mass combat, maybe crafting. WotC won't do it, of course, but plenty of other content creators in the sea.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Speaking of Mystara, there's something else I've been wanting from D&D for a long time--Immortal rules. Forget Epic Rules, where you're just the same old characters but you're killing tarresques in one round. I want rules for achieving at least demigodhood.

The path from regular folk to Immortal is one of the best parts of the Known World. Would love to see this!

 

[Micah Sweet]

That might be a good mix with the Bastion rules, also in the DMG.

The Bastion rules, if they're anything like the ones previewed, would IMO not be a good fit for kingdom management. All they are is another avenue to personal badassery for PCs who have too many of those already, with the added "bonus" of making zero sense from a "real life logic" point of view.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I am getting the impression that Minigiant does not understand Greyhawk or what is required for an intro setting.

It currently doesn't.
And there is no guarantee WOTC will update it.

That is 90% off the problem.

Greyhawk is freaking OLD.
To match 5th edition's mechanics, assumptions, and content, Greyhawk needs an update.

And there is no guarantee WOTC will update it.
A not-updated Greyhawk is a poor education material.
You would be forcing new DMs to do something with the knowledge to do it.

And here is the Catch-22

An updated Greyhawk has no charm. It's just Alt FR.

This is not really needed.

I need someone to explain to me what updates Greyhawk needs. Cause from reading it, it does not really require much.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I listed it before.

Make it Heroic Fantasy
Make it High Magic
Remove all the SciFi, Western, and general non fantasy stuff
Inject currently popular themes
Explain how all the popular characters fit in the world
Explain the empty spaces

Basically a setting that matches the Players Handbook.

None of this is required. It matches well with the core assumptions with no update like this.

 

[Minigiant]

Okay get into my mind space.

In the Greyhawk + Thread, the Greyhawk constantly state how Greyhawk is different from the base of 5e.

So if Greyhawk is so different from modern 5e, why should we use it to teach modern 5e?

Someone explain that logic to me

 

[Remathilis]

Okay get into my mind space.

In the Greyhawk + Thread, the Greyhawk constantly state how Greyhawk is different from the base of 5e.

So if Greyhawk is so different from modern 5e, why should we use it to teach modern 5e?

Someone explain that logic to me

Because people are trying to pull a "I'm not like the other girls..." with Greyhawk. It's not that different from core D&D in any edition. And the few tonal changes are good to show how to flavor the core rules without mass banning player options or writing a million dollar Kickstarter.

 

[Parmandur]

Sure, but I said Entire History, not Initial History. More was written after 1980

Yeah, but I doubt they will touch on much of that.