D&D 5E (2024) Greyhawk- New Map, Discussion of Changes

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Here is Blackmoor from the 4-panel LG map published in Dragon Magazine.

The “ruins” are of Blackmoor Town.

You can bet a Comeback Inn is somewhere around to dimension hop to Dave’s iteration of Blackmoor though.

 

[Yaarel]

Here is Blackmoor from the 4-panel LG map published in Dragon Magazine.

The “ruins” are of Blackmoor Town.

You can bet a Comeback Inn is somewhere around to dimension hop to Dave’s iteration of Blackmoor though.

The problem is, Blackmoor is a small town on the coast. The "ruins" are somewhere inland nowhere near it. The ruins arent even in the same hex as Blackmoor.

Recall that the name "Blackmoor" was used both for the small town and for the larger region. The ruins are of "a" town in the Blackmoor region. "Blackmoor town" means a town "in" Blackmoor.

In any case, now the region is called "Arn", not Blackmoor. There might be some retcon history here for 2024.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Other may have been changed because, um .... shut up Beavis-
Glorioles to Hestmark Peaks

I mean, I definitely made a Beavis kind of chuckle when I read Glorioles.

 

[Yaarel]

Note, south of Bramwald, the Regent of the Mines and its mining area are now underwater, as are the Iron Hills.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

The problem is, Blackmoor is a small town on the coast. The "ruins" are somewhere inland nowhere near it. The ruins arent even in the same hex as Blackmoor.

Recall that the name "Blackmoor" was used both for the small town and for the larger region. The ruins are of "a" town in the Blackmoor region. "Blackmoor town" means a town "in" Blackmoor.

If you’re looking for problems you’re going to try to force Dave’s Blackmoor into that section of the Flanaess you have to T.A.R.D.I.S. the land and warp the size of Dave’s Blackmoor into the tiny amount of room the Flanaess allows.

You have a lot of contorting the likes of a circus performer to make both Blackmoors be the same.

In my mind, it’s easier to drop the Comeback Inn up there in the Flanaess, and characters who enter it come out into Dave’s. ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Yaarel]

If you’re looking for problems you’re going to try to force Dave’s Blackmoor into that section of the Flanaess you have to T.A.R.D.I.S. the land and warp the size of Dave’s Blackmoor into the tiny amount of room the Flanaess allows.

You have a lot of contorting the likes of a circus performer to make both Blackmoors be the same.

In my mind, it’s easier to drop the Comeback Inn up there in the Flanaess, and characters who enter it come out into Dave’s. ¯\(ツ)/¯

The area of Blackmoor was mostly ignored by Greyhawk players. Whatever is there wont matter much to most.

The actual town of Blackmoor is nowhere near the "ruins". There is no getting around this. Meanwhile, Blackmoor was never a major town. It was always small town on the coast. It is essentially a fishing village, albeit needed to be fortified in the battles against the Egg, marsh monsters, and neighboring towns.

In the spirit of celebrating both Arneson and Gygax for the 50th Anniversary, it is worth a do-over, to get beyond the personal fallout between them. Both Blackmoor and Greyhawk coexisted during Castle & Crusades. Blackmoor can be alive and well. No problem.

The only canon that exists, is core 2024. It may or may not be the same as earlier editions had it. Now the region is called Arn. Not Blackmoor. What else is different here for 2024?

 

[Yaarel]

In the Greyhawk 2024 map, each hex is 30 miles across. The town of Blackmoor is about the size of one modern city block, essentially a gated community.

There is lots of room for many such towns in the region of Arn.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

In the Greyhawk 2024 map, each hex is 30 miles across. The town of Blackmoor is about the size of one modern city block, essentially a gated community.

Are you familiar with the scale of the Blackmoor region maps from the DA series?

It’s 350 miles or so from Blackmoor to Archlis on the opposite side of the peninsula.

 

[Yaarel]

Are you familiar with the scale of the Blackmoor region maps from the DA series?

It’s 350 miles or so from Blackmoor to Archlis on the opposite side of the peninsula.

I only pay attention to the stuff by Arneson himself. On his map, Blackmoor and Bramwald are roughly 100 miles apart. On the Greyhawk 2024 map, they are roughly 50 miles apart. Each "town" is less than one mile across. There is plenty of room.

Any discrepancies between any maps can be explained by all maps being premodern, merely guesstimates compiling disparate information from sources of various quality. A distortion of distance simply means the map wasnt made by a local.

What I care most about is the hinterland around Blackmoor itself. Everything else can be there or not.


[Edit]: @AdmundfortGeographer

Here, I found this map online, based on the map by Arneson, and look at the scale. According to this map (by Clayton Bunce for Zeitgeist), Blackmoor and Bramwald actually are roughly 50 miles apart. So the scale of the Greyhawk 2024 map holds true. Good enough anyway. In any case, the various publications of the Arneson map have had different scales of distances, so just pick the scale that best matches the Greyhawk 2024 map.

And for comparison:

The main difference between the two maps is, the area by Arneson of the Iron Hills and Black Hills are underwater, and other parts of the "Sinking Lands" have sunk. Stuff like this can be explained, but doesnt even need to be. It is possible to use the Greyhawk 2024 map as-is, for a satisfying version of the Arneson map.

 

[Parmandur]

Basically the Iron Age.

Or certain parts of Gwrmany in the Middle Ages at particular times.

The original al text says that the "Bandit Kingdoms" consist of 17 major unstable Microstation, and there was a map of these in Dragon at some point:

Of note, the city state of Stoink was the subject of a lost module of Gary Gygax that was ready to go to print when he was kicked out of the company called Wasp's Nest.