D&D General Greyhawk setting material

[Paul Farquhar]

While this is not a strict rule/ruling it is a very good DMing style highly enjoyable, because it challenges the players also during "routine" actions and times.

I think the Western tropes give a good idea of how the general population would view adventurers, but it actually goes back much further. When Beowulf arrives at Herot he is initially greeted with hostility and suspicion.

 

[Coroc]

According to your interpretation of the setting, you mean.

After all, humans working with non-humans happens ALL THE TIME in the setting. The Scarlet Brotherhood does work with humanoids frequently, albeit in a master/slave capacity usually. The settings of Sasserine and Cauldron are both very cosmopolitan, with non-humans and humans running around together pretty commonly. GoS has humans working side by side with hobgoblins in the first adventure, as well as the smugglers being perfectly willing to sell weapons to lizard folk, who are written up as not particularly hostile to the humans that live, what half a days walk away. A day maybe? Oh, and let's not forget that the whole point of the next two modules is for the humans of Saltmarsh to team up with said lizard folk, as well as a handful of other races, in order to repel the sahuagin threat.

I'm really not sure where you are getting this xenophobic thing from the setting. Virtually none of the setting materials actually reflect this. Most of them, including the art, depict strongly mixed, cosmopolitan populations that probably wouldn't bet much of an eye at something like a dragonborn or a tiefling. Heck, THIS is the Tiefling that the back country folks of Saltmarsh deal with routinely and don't have too many problems with:

Not really going to pass for human in any kind of light.

Well this is a 5e style tiefling. If you presented me this picture back in a 2e session the whole party would go for the evil demon / devil before it could do any harm. Several succubi back from those days illustrations looked more trustworthy despites having hooves and wings

I never did deny that the evil humans do ally with orcs and other monsterfolk, as do scarlet brotherhood and criminals. I was talking bout the neutral to good standard population. You know those people who often hire adventurers to kill of the evil elements.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Several succubi back from those days illustrations looked more trustworthy despites having hooves and wings

Well, they definitely weren't carrying concealed weapons...

 

[Zardnaar]

According to your interpretation of the setting, you mean.

After all, humans working with non-humans happens ALL THE TIME in the setting. The Scarlet Brotherhood does work with humanoids frequently, albeit in a master/slave capacity usually. The settings of Sasserine and Cauldron are both very cosmopolitan, with non-humans and humans running around together pretty commonly. GoS has humans working side by side with hobgoblins in the first adventure, as well as the smugglers being perfectly willing to sell weapons to lizard folk, who are written up as not particularly hostile to the humans that live, what half a days walk away. A day maybe? Oh, and let's not forget that the whole point of the next two modules is for the humans of Saltmarsh to team up with said lizard folk, as well as a handful of other races, in order to repel the sahuagin threat.

I'm really not sure where you are getting this xenophobic thing from the setting. Virtually none of the setting materials actually reflect this. Most of them, including the art, depict strongly mixed, cosmopolitan populations that probably wouldn't bet much of an eye at something like a dragonborn or a tiefling. Heck, THIS is the Tiefling that the back country folks of Saltmarsh deal with routinely and don't have too many problems with:

Not really going to pass for human in any kind of light.

Almost everything you quoted came from later sources or are villains.

Bad people associate with monstrous types.

I'm not a strict purist I might allow it but such a PC is going to have an interesting life. Think Drizzt in Sojourn. I might sign off on a Tiefling or Drow but not a Dragonborn.

The question is more.

1. Does this exist?
2. If yes should PCs be allowed to play it?

I allow Drow in my current game,no one picked one. I don't allow them on things like Darksun. For GH it would be depends.

In any event it might be first in first served, if everyone wanted Drow I would set it on a different world or do a different type of game such as underdark.

 

[Coroc]

Almost everything you quoted came from later sources or are villains.

Bad people associate with monstrous types.

I'm not a strict purist I might allow it but such a PC is going to have an interesting life. Think Drizzt in Sojourn. I might sign off on a Tiefling or Drow but not a Dragonborn.

The question is more.

1. Does this exist?
2. If yes should PCs be allowed to play it?

I allow Drow in my current game,no one picked one. I don't allow them on things like Darksun. For GH it would be depends.

In any event it might be first in first served, if everyone wanted Drow I would set it on a different world or do a different type of game such as underdark.

And this is imho the most reasonable approach.
There is no black white solution to this topic, and on your table you can do anything you want. But if you want to postulate something as a common baseline or recommendation then this is it.

 

[Son of the Serpent]

I simply can't comprehend how OG Greyhawk fans can't accept tieflings in the setting. Given the canonical fiend-humanoid interbreeding in the lands of Iuz and in the Great Kingdom from even the earliest sources, it's logical that not only would they exist, but they would likely be relatively numerous. Or does Greyhawk have "humanoids-of-fiendish-decent-that-are-totally-not-tieflings-even-though-that's-exactly-what-tieflings-by-definition-are" for them?

I think, if i understand correctly i might actually have part of the answer to that. Part may actually be heavily involved in them being numerous. There is plenty of lore on demons having offspring with mortals. Yes. But its fairly obvious that while the encounters are numerous they are none the less miniscule comparing shear numbers of entire populations. I think thats the issue. Also tieflings arent generally considered half demons. Further, most of whats written about NAMED tieflings if you pay close attention tends to be tightly associated with a few very obvious networks. There certainly are more tiefling origins than those but a seriously large amount of the named ones are all somehow bound up in the same couple spider webs. Luz is actually a perfect example of that. Involved in multiple machinations that were set into motion by multiple parties of interest before he was even conceived.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

We have to remember the Rhennee are humans from a place named Rhop, maybe other world. The feywild can be also a bridge between worlds, and more creatures could arrive to the Graysphere.

The first dragoborns, from 3.5 Ed "Races of Dragons" were ordinary humans and humanoids changed by the god Bahamut, but they weren't fertile yet, until the 4th Ed.

* There is a good reason to add tieflings, the offspring of succubus, infiltrated among the concubines of the harem. For the ordinary people they would be the kindred of nobles and satyress concubines (with a great fame of being the best lovers).

* Do you notice tieflings are more popular than the aasimars?

* I guess WotC's plan is first the remake or creation of races and classes (incarnum, martial adepts or pact magic with vestiges), and later the retcon of WotC worlds to create spaces where the new elements to be added.

 

[Hussar]

The resistance to Dragonborn just absolutely baffles me. Is it a holdover 4e thing? I mean, what's the actual problem here? Lizard folk aren't exactly rare.

The part that I find laughable is that demi-humans get a pass. Hrrrmmm, virtually immortal (at least from a human perspective (Greyhawk grey elves lived something like 2000 years) faery creatures can walk into a store and get served no problems. But a lizard man gets automatically attacked? It's just such a bizarre point of view in a setting that has SO many humanoid races running around.

Sure, Sasserine and Cauldron might be later additions, but, Saltmarsh? That predates the boxed set. A1-4? Hommlet?

Why limit the setting to a Tolkien ripoff? I'd much rather we add in some of the funkier races than be stuck in the 1940's as far as what races are acceptable in common society. I dunno. Maybe it's because the first Greyhawk fiction I ever read was Quag Keep by Andre Norton. Terrible book, sure, but, hey, I was like 9 years old and it stuck in my head as totally cool. And it featured a scaly lizard dude character. I'd have to wait almost thirty years before D&D actually had a scaled PC race as an official race I could take.

I'll never, ever understand people's attachment to the Tolkien races.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Personally, I prefer saurials, which I think have been part of Forgotten Realms (but not Greyhawk afaik) since at least 2nd edition.

I've seen plenty of optional rules lizardfolk PCs over the years, and given that the Greyhawk set U2 features lizardfolk-as-people, I would probably encourage Greyhawk players down that road.

I think 5e Dragonborn are a bit dull mechanically, but I wouldn't outright ban them, I just wouldn't play one myself.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*