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[Grim Tales] Spellcasting Questions

I'm also creating a new feat that will up "Effective Aptitude" by 2 points or so. This is to aid in casting times, as that's what really nerfs this sort of caster. They can haul out some pretty hairy stuff at 1st Mag. The caster's player was out on Sunday so I prepped his PC. Took a few minutes and a calculator to get him set up.

I did mess with magic a little. I left the skills as-is. It really forced the caster into a tough position, because he needed Cha, Int, and Con to make a good caster. He dropped Str and Dex to 8, couldn't drop Wis because he wanted good Will. It seems a touch ODD to let Dedicated and Charismatic have the casting trees, but I wanted there to be ways to work other kinds of casters up. Because it is skill-point based, however, most casters will probably go Smart. Especially with Savant.

I've messed with some of the spells to better reflect my own game. The BCCS magic system was obviously written with Lady and the Dominator in mind, so, say, attacking somebody with a TKed sword STARTS at DC 45. That's pretty tall. It's not so much about hitting the DC (in a few levels, my caster could) but about the fact that even in a few levels, that would be a spell that he'd need 3 full rounds to cast. For a simple attack with a TKed weapon. But for that same DC he could use Force to whallop somebody at 10' with, oh, 8d6 nonlethal damage, give or take. Some of the spells are just WEIRD like that, personally.

I fixed up a few things specific to my setting. Dropped the DC on Air Magic down to 10 from 15 so my caster could take it at 1st level. Like you, we wanted a slightly higher magic level than what would be offered by the system "straight". I'll probably change some more stuff on a case-by-case basis depending on WHAT our caster wants to take.

The evil race of my campaign was actually easy to work up. I gave them +1 Spell Energy, +2 Aptitude, SR, and Dabbler or Talent. -2 Con, +2 Cha. Makes for very nice "evil spellcasters" flavor. Especially since I invariably give them Afflict. My players are SO tired of getting struck blind or deaf or dumb. They were almost frothing at the mouth on sunday because I'd whipped up a caster that could do a 3-round Blindness as a 1 Action touch spell. (Those guys are +1LA)

Giving a Fetish is good. I let my caster build some fetish rings for his spells, for instance. I'm thinking of tying the increased aptitude feat to something, perhaps a way to put it into a staff. I think that would be an interesting bit of flavor. He casts FASTER with his focus staff, etc.

Watch Spell Energy. With high Con and the Spell Energy from magnitude and a Spell Energy Resevoir feat he's got 6 points already. Even worked WAY up the biggest drain I've seen was 1d8+12, that on a blended spell -I- made up. 20' blast of wind that would knock a Medium creature prone AND do 5d6 nonlethal damage. Most of the time, though, for your average spell he totally ignores the drain. 1-2 points, 3-4 for his pre-prepped spells. It's barely worth tracking. It's TIME that's the issue for him, as I've said before. So you can probably ignore SER for a pre-prepped caster to up that aspect for the player.

--fje
 

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Heap,

Thanks much for the extra food for thought. I am probably not going to worry too much about fine tuning/customization - I just want something fun and different to use. I am thinking about completely retooling my Faded Glory campaign using this combo, so it will be interesting to see how this works.

I am trying to decide if I am going to make the Smart Caster S8 or S9...

S9 would let me push the envelope a bit with a 2nd Magnitude caster, which could be interesting.

On a related note, are you using the more restrictive healing rules from BCCS - with most skill/feats/talents providing lethal to non-lethal damage conversion? If so, how is that working?

Thanks again for sharing your experiences.

~ OO
 

We are using the conversion rules for healing from BCCS, yes. But, I'm not really sure how it would turn out in the "average" game.

See, our game, we never seem to have more than one combat every month or two game-time. So "magically healed" and "takes a week" can be the same thing, for the most part. It's just never really become important.

I LIKE it though. The flavor is good, and I'd probably use it in a grim-but-higher-magic game, even. Something where magical healing is available but not regular.

For a one-shot where you're going to run several combats ... I don't know. If it's literally a ONE shot, taking place across one game-day or so, then it might be iffy. Might be the same as removing healing all-together if they don't get a good couple chances to lay up for a few hours and catch their breath. If you use it, give them those times, but make them tense. Keep the story moving. If you don't, then it might as well have been "magical" healing, but if they can't recover some of that nonlethal damage, then they might as well have not been healed at all, as they'll drop just as quickly.

I've had good experiences with that sort of thing. I had a Blood And Vigilance d20Modern game with Fewer Dead Heroes. I'd give them some down-time and the "normal" characters (think pulp action heroes) would get a chance to recover some hit points. In THAT game I actually had magical healing (the occultist could cast CoC spells, with ability damage) and I had THAT spell convert and, thinking about it, it worked really nicely.

This game is quite different. I'd say at least 2/3 of every session is UPKEEP. It's all about background and story. Quite different from anything I've played before. Which brings me to a note.

I REALLY like the 6-Levels Of Mastercrafting out of the BCCS book. It makes shopping a real treat. I use the modern "Costs of Mastercrafting" rules, though. We use Wealth. Instead of a flat cost to every mastercraft item, it's sort of scales. (I never liked the idea of ... Spoon = 5cp, Mastercraft Spoon = 150.05 gp; Shield = 20gp, Mastercraft Shield = 170gp). That's a great system to incorporate into pretty much ANY game, I think.

--fje
 

Heap,

They will have some limited healing resources + a dedicated physician-type PC, so I am not too worried about it (although they should be). One of the things I am thinking about is an elixer that will either convert lethal to non-lethal and/or accelerate the recovery of non-lethal. However, each successive use of the potion requires an increasing fortitude check to avoid overstimulating the CNS. Blow a fort save and it knocks you out or stuns you for some rounds.

On spell talents, are they available as general feats + on the S/D/C bonus feat list? One thing I had considered to nerf the Spell Energy Res. a bit was to move it to the talent side of the ledger, but I think that is too much.

~ OO
 

I keep them as general and bonus feats. The casters really need them. BCCS wizards get more talents already, I think, and your GT caster is going to be a level behind as of 4th level.

I think if you're building the PC, then just don't take SER. If you're letting players take it, just suggest how useful another Talent could be in place of it, unless they have very low Con. Your average DC 30 effect of a Dabbler/SoW talent is 1d8+4 damage. That's an effect that takes several rounds, at least, for a low level caster to make. They're more likely to die from getting hacked to death while they try to cast the spell half the combat than they're in danger of passing out. High Spell Energy is more useful at higher levels, I think, but it's very attractive. People see the system and think: "Woo, I need high Energy so I can cast aaaaaaallll daaaaaay." My caster will probably not knock himself out casting spells, but at 5th level he's only got two talents to choose from. Seeing it in action, I don't think it's troublesome to the DM per se. My guy can cast all day, but he's got 2-3 combat effects and that's his total utility. I think HE'D have rather taken another talent, more than I wish he'd hurry up and pass out. :)

--fje
 

OK...

Since we have totally hijacked this thread ;), here is my "power-caster" for my Emorian special forces team:

S. Antonius Bellicus

Smart 9

S: 10
D: 14
C: 14
I: 14
W: 10
Ch: 18

(34 point build +2 stat increases - hey, it's a 1-shot :p )

Talents: Student of Wizardry, Savant (Use Magic)(A), 1st Magnitude (A), Obscure Knowledge (A), Savant (A)(Knowledge Aracana)

Feats: Combat Casting, Spell Energy Resevoir 1, Iron Will, Improved Initiative, Afflict Talent, Force Talent, Create Energy (Cold) Talent, Fear Talent, Wards Talent

Magical Apptitude: 16

Spell Energy: 5

Background: Gentry

Skills (132 skill points): Use Magic +31 (12 ranks + Savant 9 + 1st Magnitude 4 + CHA Bonus 4 + Knowledge Aracana synergy +2), Intimidate +24, Detect Magic +16, Prestidigiation +13, Ghost Sound +13, Knowledge (Arcana) +23, Knowledge (Ettiquite) +14, Diplomacy +17, Bluff +13, Perform +7, Profession (Apothecary) +2, Craft (Alchemy) +14, Concentration (BCCS version) +14, Decipher Script +14

Thoughts (and did I miss anything)?

EDIT: I think I have everything (including synergies and ability bonuses now).

~ OO
 
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9th is two levels early for 2nd Magnitude by my system, as well, I think. I had it coming one level after the BCCS wizard, who gets it at 10th level. Not that you can't do it that way, especially for a one shot, just to let 'em rip. I don't think he'll entirely overpower the rest of the party. BCCS wizards seem seldom in danger of that. Very useful individuals, though.

Also, Spell Energy is way off.

SoW gives you Con, and another point.
1st Mag adds a point.
2nd Mag adds TWO points.

So, if he started with 14 con, he should have 2 (Con) +1 (SoW) +1 (1st) +2 (2nd Mag) +1 (SER) for 7.

Thus what I said about most wizards not needing SER unless their Con is really low.

I'm thinking there may be some synergy bonuses you're missing. See P. 85 of the BCCS. I know K(Arcana) gives synergy to Use Magic and Use Magic gives synergy to Detect Magic, etc etc. I included those as "part of the system".

Other than that, looks good. I'd think up some good spell effects for him to memorize. He can definately blend some of those spells together for some interesting stuff.

--fje
 
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HeapThaumaturgist said:
9th is two levels early for 2nd Magnitude by my system, as well, I think. I had it coming one level after the BCCS wizard, who gets it at 10th level. Not that you can't do it that way, especially for a one shot, just to let 'em rip. I don't think he'll entirely overpower the rest of the party. BCCS wizards seem seldom in danger of that. Very useful individuals, though.

Also, Spell Energy is way off.

SoW gives you Con, and another point.
1st Mag adds a point.
2nd Mag adds TWO points.

So, if he started with 14 con, he should have 2 (Con) +1 (SoW) +1 (1st) +2 (2nd Mag) +1 (SER) for 7.

Thus what I said about most wizards not needing SER unless their Con is really low.

I'm thinking there may be some synergy bonuses you're missing. See P. 85 of the BCCS. I know K(Arcana) gives synergy to Use Magic and Use Magic gives synergy to Detect Magic, etc etc. I included those as "part of the system".

Other than that, looks good. I'd think up some good spell effects for him to memorize. He can definately blend some of those spells together for some interesting stuff.

--fje

Heap,

DOH!

I guess it would help to read the entries closer...

Totally forgot the magnitude SE increase...I will also ratchet back the Magnitude to 1st (Use Magic ranks 14 to achieve 2nd = 11th)...he is going to get a couple of fetishes to boost his Use Magic. Let's try this again ;).

~ OO
 

...It's like watching someone build a car, that you don't know what the HECK it'll do, you just know it'll be cool once it's out of the garage... :D

don't let me bug you, carry on...
 

Henry said:
...It's like watching someone build a car, that you don't know what the HECK it'll do, you just know it'll be cool once it's out of the garage... :D

don't let me bug you, carry on...

Henry,

Just look at that updated Intimidate skill bonus...you will be makin' folks pee in their pants with a mere scowl ;)!

~ OO
 

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