D&D 5E Group Iniative Order

[MarkB]

So all your monsters have a separate init? I think you over stating the case. The is a boss fight with waves. First wave is 4 or 5 guards. Depending on how you did earlier. The boss is protected by box text. Once the first wave is killed, the second wave comes.
Second wave is 8 blood hawks which will operate in teams of two using pack tactics. So in this case one pc is not a target. The villain is escaping but can be engaged by missile weapons. If both blood hawks hit, the avg damage will zero a wizard. The hippogriff is also present. But the group can grab the prisoner and retreat.
I can see this being a tpk if the dm is not careful. Especially if everyone is first level. While I don't train my monsters to SAS team tactics, I will use their abilities. I have dm this mission at least six times. How I run depends on the players and levels of pcs.

The only issue I'd have with this scenario is that it effectively requires the monsters to "know" that they're acting on a group initiative, and that if they move and ready their actions they'll still all get to go before any of the PCs get to act. If the situation were reversed, this would be an extremely risky move - if the first PC to act ran off ahead of the rest, he'd have no way of knowing whether his allies would have the opportunity to immediately charge in after him, or if he'd suddenly find himself alone and outnumbered as multiple opponents took their turns, holding a readied action that he might not survive long enough to trigger.

 

[iserith]

The only issue I'd have with this scenario is that it effectively requires the monsters to "know" that they're acting on a group initiative

What is the issue though? The DM establishes what the monsters know and in any case doesn't need to establish any particular knowledge on the part of the blood hawks for them to act in the fashion they did.

 

[Oofta]

- If they had multiple attacks, they'd lose their extra attacks because readying takes your action and then it takes your 'reaction' to make the attack. You can't ready multiple attacks.

Not to derail this, but I went to double check this because I didn't remember details of how they stated this. I see nothing that says a readied action is limited to one attack. So I'm not sure a monster with multi-attack would not get all their attacks. Or a fighter readying a multi-attack for that matter, although bonus actions are limited to your turn.

I can't find anything that says a readied action is limited. Under Ready it just says "you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger". Opportunity attacks are limited to one melee attack because it says "you use your reaction to make one melee attack against the provoking creature".

Am I just missing something?

 

[MarkB]

Not to derail this, but I went to double check this because I didn't remember details of how they stated this. I see nothing that says a readied action is limited to one attack. So I'm not sure a monster with multi-attack would not get all their attacks. Or a fighter readying a multi-attack for that matter, although bonus actions are limited to your turn.

I can't find anything that says a readied action is limited. Under Ready it just says "you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger". Opportunity attacks are limited to one melee attack because it says "you use your reaction to make one melee attack against the provoking creature".

Am I just missing something?

The Extra Attack feature specifically grants additional attacks when you use the Attack action on your turn . The multiattack feature has no such restriction, and can be used with a readied Attack action.

 

[Oofta]

The Extra Attack feature specifically grants additional attacks when you use the Attack action on your turn . The multiattack feature has no such restriction, and can be used with a readied Attack action.

Good point, I should have included that.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

The Extra Attack feature specifically grants additional attacks when you use the Attack action on your turn . The multiattack feature has no such restriction, and can be used with a readied Attack action.

I didn't realize multi-attacks could be readied....interesting. The thing is, lots of NPCs in modules have multi-attack...but, it seems to me they really just have 2 attacks.

Frulam Mondath in Horde of the Dragon Queen has 'multi-attack' and can attack twice with her halberd. I'm not sure I'd let her ready 2 attacks...A creature with multiple appendages, I might allow if that's RAW.

 

[S'mon]

T If the situation were reversed, this would be an extremely risky move - if the first PC to act ran off ahead of the rest, he'd have no way of knowing whether his allies would have the opportunity to immediately charge in after him, or if he'd suddenly find himself alone and outnumbered as multiple opponents took their turns, holding a readied action that he might not survive long enough to trigger.

You hide initiative numbers from the players?

 

[S'mon]

I too had a session where we couldn't work out why the PCs could only attack once with a Readied action, since it's not a restriction in Readied Action (unlike opportunity attack). Eventually we realised the restriction was in Extra Attack.

I didn't realize multi-attacks could be readied....interesting. The thing is, lots of NPCs in modules have multi-attack...but, it seems to me they really just have 2 attacks.

Frulam Mondath in Horde of the Dragon Queen has 'multi-attack' and can attack twice with her halberd. I'm not sure I'd let her ready 2 attacks...A creature with multiple appendages, I might allow if that's RAW.

Yes, the NPCs should have Extra Attack not multi-attack* and should be subject to those restrictions IMO. Other critters like bears don't need to be though - so you can have a horde of trolls all move then all multi-attack, and keep it legal.

Mind you this is often actually NOT optimal - optimal is often move-attack-move to let more of your allies get attacks in too.

*There's actually a minor artifact IMC, the Dragon Gauntlets, that allow a claw-claw-rend routine
as a single Attack - so with Extra Attack the barbarian-20 dragonborn PC wearing them can attack twice for potentially four attacks & 2 rends (if all 4 attacks hit). Potential damage is enormous, but he almost always sticks to sword & shield for the better AC.

 

[MarkB]

You hide initiative numbers from the players?

I've always tracked initiative myself, and don't announce opponents' initiative, so during the first round of combat they typically won't know when an enemy will act. I've seen some DMs do it that way, and others track it in the open. I'm not sure there's a hard-and-fast rule for it.

 

[S'mon]

I've always tracked initiative myself, and don't announce opponents' initiative, so during the first round of combat they typically won't know when an enemy will act. I've seen some DMs do it that way, and others track it in the open. I'm not sure there's a hard-and-fast rule for it.

Pretty sure there's no rule. I've just never heard of this before.