Grr. Return of the King makes me angry.

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Peter Jackson himself said that it was anti-climactic.

And he's right. Now, I didn't mind it in the book, but the movies really are a whole different animal.

Maybe the Scouring would have worked if LotR was only for us Geeks, but it had a HUGE appeal beyond the niche market that fantasy usually gets. All of the emotional investment gets put into this story and finally is relieved(at least mostly) with the destruction of the ring. To put in the Scouring, you then force MORE emotional investment and its just plain exhausting by that point.

Purists could handle it fine. But the general amount of movie goes? No way. There's just a point where you have to accept that movies and books can't do the same things.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Maybe SciFi could do a movie just on the scouring of the Shire for those who realy care.

 

[barsoomcore]

Peter Jackson himself said that it was anti-climactic.

Yeah, well, what we're debating is whether or not his choice was the best possible. I think it was not, and others think it was. Fair enough. Nobody's right or wrong in these kinds of discussions, but it's fun to entertain possibilities.

Wiz: Frodo and Sam escape from Cirith Ungol, disguise themselves as orcs, cross the plains of Mordor and climb up the side of Mt. Doom. And keep in mind that my model has the Ring being destroyed halfway through the film, so to protest that they "do virtually NOTHING during the third movie, until they get to Mt. Doom" is to pretty much miss the whole point of what I'm saying. Until they get to Mt. Doom is only halfway through the movie, so to have them "only" surviving a desperate battle of orc vs orc, trying to keep from being noticed in the midst of a huge army, crossing a desolate landscape, fighting off Gollum on the side of Mt. Doom and climbing up to the fire is quite enough for them to be doing in an hour and a bit, I think. You'd probably be able to cut the whole bit with the army, and still have lots of material.

Insufficient material is almost never going to be the film-maker's problem in adapting these works.

I agree that it would be a challenge. I think it would be worth it, but then to me, the Scouring IS the climax of the story. If a film-maker could communicate that to an audience it would work. Obviously if they couldn't, it wouldn't.

That said, I don't think dropping the Scouring was that big a deal, myself. I think that aspect of the story was actually handled reasonably well in the films. My objections to the way the second and third films were put together I've already detailed. The second is plain BAD, and I THINK the third one is, too, though I'm withholding judgement till I see it again.

And NOT because the Scouring isn't in it, and NOT because they don't faithfully follow the books. Though I do note that pretty much every clumsy bit of dialogue and heavy-handed narratorial oom-pa-pa is new material. The stuff that IS faithful to the books is pretty consistently the best stuff throughout the movies.

I don't think that's a coincidence.

 

[Ranger REG]

If a brash filmmaker wants to do a better adaptation of LOTR than Peter Jackson's, I hope it will be after I am gone.

AFAIC, Peter Jackson's films are more than good enough for me.

 

[RangerWickett]

Hey, how many Hamlet movies do we have? I think there'll be a few more Lord of the Ringses. Just not for another twenty years.

Question to Barsoomcore: Is Theoden's rallying speech before the cavalry charge in RotK new material, or Tolkien's? Is it just that the actor was really good?

In TTT, I don't mind the 'Running across Middle Earth chasing orcs and talking to ourselves' bit, because it's better than having the three guys running alongside each other chatting. I'm okay with that bit of cinema.

I think the stuff at Rohan was excellent. The random fight with worgs on the field wouldn't have been necessary if, as you said, they had ended the movie with Shelob. They should never have changed Faramir and brought the ring to . . . whatever that city's name was. That part of the movie could've been cut, the worg fight could've been cut, and we could've had Shelob.

Oh well. They're still very fun to watch, especially with the twink Elf archer. *grin*

 

[WizarDru]

Hey, how many Hamlet movies do we have? I think there'll be a few more Lord of the Ringses. Just not for another twenty years.

How many versions of Henry V do we have? How much work does it take to stage Hamlet? How much to stage LotR? How many versions of Journey to the Center of the Earth? It's not a question of just someone's take on it: it's a direct question of how it would be done, for how much money, and how it would be compared with what has gone before. There's a reason that previously, the radio play was the version to compare to, after all.

barsoomcore: I see what you're saying...but you've distilled a lot of pages down to just the action points. My recollection of most of that period of the series is pure boredom. I'm not saying it couldn't be done...I just don't think it would be a better version. I suppose you're right that I'm exagerrating when I say 'nothing happens'. It'd probably be much more correct to say 'it left me with the impression that nothing happens.'

 

[Agback]

The stuff that IS faithful to the books is pretty consistently the best stuff throughout the movies. I don't think that's a coincidence.

Indeed!

Novels of course require adaptation to be made into good films. And absolutely faithful filming of Lord of the Rings would be a dreadful movie. On the other hand, there is a reason that LotR is the best-selling literary property ever. The story needed to be adapted substantially from one medium to another. But the plot, theme, and especially dialogue did not need improving, and if it did, any writer would have to be pretty vain to think that he or she was the one to do it.

Regards,


Agback

 

[Agback]

I agree that it would be a challenge. I think it would be worth it, but then to me, the Scouring IS the climax of the story.

Yeah. The point of the Hero's Quest is that after returning from the Land of Adventure he is able to work boons for his people. Without the Scouring of the Shire, Merry and Pippin are pretty pointless characters. Random extras could just as well have accomplished what they accomplished.

Which only reminds me of how very irritating I found it that Merry and Pippin were changed from aristocrats of the highest rank to gangrels and petty thieves. I would rather have lost the Unexpected Party than the Conspiracy Unmasked.

 

[KenM]

Peter Jackson said in an interview or on one of the commentaires that the mirror with the shire burning is they're tribute to the Scorging. He also said many times that if you try to do a direct translation of the book to film, it would be unfilimible. Peter jackson and the others that made this version made the ring seem alomost its own character, its own entiny, showing how evil it was, so the desctrution of the ring should have been the climax, IMO.
I did not mind the Warg fight in the middle of TTT, the movie needed a little action at that point.

 

[Ranger REG]

How many versions of Henry V do we have?

Non nobis domine, domine
Non nobis domine
Sed nomini, sed nomini
Tuo da gloriam.

Great. You got me singing that damn song again.

How much work does it take to stage Hamlet? How much to stage LotR? How many versions of Journey to the Center of the Earth? It's not a question of just someone's take on it: it's a direct question of how it would be done, for how much money, and how it would be compared with what has gone before. There's a reason that previously, the radio play was the version to compare to, after all.

If you ask me, the original radio play of Star Wars is better than the adaptation by George Lucas released a few years later.