D&D 5E (2014) [GUIDE] Dealing Death: Handbook of the True Assassin

[bockscarrasor]

Actually here's the rub. You can't reload a crossbow, even a one handed crossbow without a free hand. This is something that was clarified a few months ago. So if you have the traditional melee weapon in one hand and the hand crossbow in the other, you can't reload. You have to sheathe or drop the melee weapon to free your hand and then you can reload. However, reloading is part of the attack that you make meaning that there's no action requirement on your part. So don't worry about that, just make sure you have a free hand. If you're using crossbows, that feat is imo a mandatory requirement at some point. Either because you have multiple attacks per attack action, or need something to do with your bonus action or both.

I'm brand new to D&D so I just want to make sure I understand.

In this you say, "make sure you have a free hand." so would I be able to use my action to attack with a one handed weapon (short sword or rapier) then my bonus action (as part of the feat) to attack with a hand crossbow. I could then do that each turn without taking any kind of action or bonus action to reload the hand crossbow?

 

[Noctem]

I'm brand new to D&D so I just want to make sure I understand.

In this you say, "make sure you have a free hand." so would I be able to use my action to attack with a one handed weapon (short sword or rapier) then my bonus action (as part of the feat) to attack with a hand crossbow. I could then do that each turn without taking any kind of action or bonus action to reload the hand crossbow?

You fire the hand crossbow, you need to reload. If you have anything in your other hand (the one not holding the hand crossbow) you can't reload. You would need to drop or store whatever you're holding first. So you could do an attack with your melee weapon and then an attack with your ranged weapon if you can make multiple attacks. But until you reload you can't fire your hand crossbow again. You need a free hand to do that.

I would really recommend talking to your DM about being able to reload your hand crossbow while holding your melee weapon. It's a common desire for players to be able to dual wield a hand crossbow but as per the rules you can't easily achieve that goal in 5e. Worse thing that happens by asking is the DM says no and you're stuck juggling weapons to reload.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Hiding in the sentence is being used as both the act of hiding and being hidden. That's how the rules describe rolling stealth to hide and being hidden, hiding. What you're attempting to do is differentiate between the act and the state. The errata and the rules themselves make no such distinction. You can thank the purposeful ambiguity of the rules for that one. The fact that they didn't specifically say something like "when you are hidden". Using the general term "hiding" instead makes the distinction you're attempting to make nonsensical. The rules also don't make a difference between requirements to become and later lose hidden. Pre errata, if you were seen you couldn't hide and if you were hidden you would lose hidden. The only way around that were the skulker feat, halfling racial ability and elven ability. Post errata, anytime you are deemed unclearly seen by the DM, since the DM decides when you can hide or not, you can hide and remaining hidden also only requires to be unclearly seen. Skulker's main benefit is now useless. The only way it's not useless is if they specifically state that half cover and light obscurement don't make you unclearly seen. In which case they would then need to explain what being unclearly seen means in 5e.

I stand corrected. Hiding may mean trying to hide in this case.
But I still interpret that sentence differently. I think if you are in light obscurement near someone he sees you clearly enough except when you have the skulker feat.
You can either make a ruling that makes sense and not make the skulker or the wood elf or maybe even the halfling ability useless, or you make a ruling that does. Just how you interpret the text. I chose not to invalidate abilities, you do.

 

[DocSharpe]

You fire the hand crossbow, you need to reload. If you have anything in your other hand (the one not holding the hand crossbow) you can't reload. You would need to drop or store whatever you're holding first. So you could do an attack with your melee weapon and then an attack with your ranged weapon if you can make multiple attacks. But until you reload you can't fire your hand crossbow again. You need a free hand to do that.

I would really recommend talking to your DM about being able to reload your hand crossbow while holding your melee weapon. It's a common desire for players to be able to dual wield a hand crossbow but as per the rules you can't easily achieve that goal in 5e. Worse thing that happens by asking is the DM says no and you're stuck juggling weapons to reload.

What Crossbow Expert gives you by removing the Loading property is essentially give you a way to have a crossbow's rate of fire keep up with a bow. Not counting action surges, hastes, or anything else, a 11th fighter can shoot 3 arrows with their Attack action. The loading proficiency of a crossbow would normally limit this to one shot per Attack action (p46 Basic Rules)...but with Crossbow Expert, the 11th level fighter can also shoot 3 shots with their Attack action. So by purchasing the feat, a heavy crossbow user gets a *slight* damage bonus over a longbow (d8 vs. d10).

With a hand crossbow, you're not going to get the "John Woo/two guns blazing" effect...it'll be more like fanning the hammer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cobPY_umBd0)...but you could also do this with a heavy crossbow.

 

[Flididdle]

This thread definitely needs more Bard.

As pointed out in the January unearthed arcana bards are often assassins hanging out in plain sight.
In fact I would say thematically Valor Bard 17/Rogue 3 is one of the most thematically flavorful characters in the game. They show up, play their gig, get out a town. Though that mostly works as human, half-elf, or elf since they can blend easier in most worlds.

I'll let others calculate the nova damage but it can get pretty insane if you drop an 8th level spell slot -9th is usually better off for the powerful 9th lvl spells- on Heat Blade. The damage can get pretty crazy and you become the equivalent of Trunks slicing Frieza apart like cheddar. The damage on one's own is great but it get's crazier when you consider: 14th lvl magical secrets: Simulacrum. This either grants extra damage or creates the perfect alibi. This is really effective with a dex based bard who has the Alert feat, with jack of all trades and possibily bardic inspiration added is likely to have the initiative after the surprise round which would then grant advantage on an attack or just allow a nice quick teleport spell to flee the scene. I mean if they really have great timing they could even have a 6th or 8th level spiritual weapons (via magic secrets) up and ready to add to the attack. A Bard 17/Rogue 3 may be the most dangerous single individual in the game. It's like being a demolition expert. I'll talk more about that on the Bard thread though, instead I'll show a few Bard builds I think really work with Rogue 3/Fighter 2.

Valor Bard 15/Rogue 3/Fighter 2
As far as I can figure THE top archer in the game. Take Swift Quiver w/10th lvl Magical Secrets, get archery fighting style which then allows you to use the Sharpshooter feat on the ambush and you can rack up some damage when Simulacrum comes online. Unfortunately this build only REALLY works with Variant Human since that allows you to start with either Sharpshooter or Alert. Like I said getting the initiative on the next attack is pretty amazing, it's like a natural action surge. Oh yeah, did I forget to mention an 8th level lightning arrow ready to fly? That's also possible crazy damage, I think I saw Mellored calculate it at 270+ damage

Barbarian 9/Lore Bard 6/Rogue 3/Fighter 2
This is kinda the half-orc special but the key will be to get haste w/6th lvl Magical Secrets and if you use a maul or battle axe It's some pretty solid damage. Unfortunately only 3 ASI's for strength but still, probably a playable and fun character, a one orc or even a one man wrecking crew. I dunno if this could run as dex based but it might be worth looking at for initiative
On a side note I'd like to see a barbarian totem that fuses with the assassin, path of the Viper maybe? you could be the D&D equivalent of a hell's angel hitman.

Eldritch Knight 11/Lore Bard 6/Rogue 3
3 attacks, action surge and you'll be a 9th or 10th level caster which will allow heat blade or haste. Conversely you could go more Bard with something like EK 7/LB 10/Rogue 3 for a more powerful caster who will have 4 magical secrets but not as many attacks or ASI's.

Another one I didn't really calculate is around a paladin since that allows for smiting using bard spell slots but I'm sure something that gets to Lore Bard 6 and haste is pretty damn good.

Another great benefit is the added expertise, which I think adds alot of flavor for an Assassin.

One question though, if you roll a 20 on an auto-crit do you deal an extra die of damage? Couldn't find the answer

 

[Coyote81]

Builds that only include 3 levels of rogue for the assassin bonus don't really feel like they belong in the assassin guide. No of these are really rogue themed either. (Even your Valor Bard is Bard themed not Rogue)

And to answer your question Auto-crit basically means you get to roll extra damage every time it occurs.

 

[DocSharpe]

Builds that only include 3 levels of rogue for the assassin bonus don't really feel like they belong in the assassin guide. No of these are really rogue themed either. (Even your Valor Bard is Bard themed not Rogue)

I think you may be missing the point of the original guide. The OP has put forth an idea that with only 3 levels of rogue, he's figured out a build which can be more deadly than a straight rogue/assassin. Your mileage and opinion may vary, but any build which starts with Fighter2/Rogue3 certainly has a place in this guide.

 

[Coyote81]

I think you may be missing the point of the original guide. The OP has put forth an idea that with only 3 levels of rogue, he's figured out a build which can be more deadly than a straight rogue/assassin. Your mileage and opinion may vary, but any build which starts with Fighter2/Rogue3 certainly has a place in this guide.

I just feel any build that has a majority of X class in it is a X build and not a rogue build.

 

[Flididdle]

I agree with DocSharpe. This thread, to me, has more concern with damage dealing. As I stated though a VB 17/Rogue 3 is a touch more Bard flavored, but still a real death dealer

 

[Eltab]

re: crossbows

Out of the Abyss includes a specialized crossbow that functions like a repeating rifle; it ignores the Loading property, with certain additional limitations. Sweet-talk your DM - True Assassins have good Deception / Persuasion, right? - into letting you visit that place, obtain one (by hook or by crook - you are after all a Rogue too) and find a Tinker Gnome friend / hireling to study the original and modify 2 Hand Crossbows to work the same way.

Presto - 6-shooter pistols !