D&D 5E Guidelines for fewer/tougher encounters?

[pming]

Hiya!

Or, to put it another way, I'm not looking to make attrition workable. I'm looking for a way to make fights dangerous and fun without the use of attrition.

Introduce "Critical Hit Charts".

The HARP and Rolemaster books by ICE should do nicely. I'm sure you can find a way to make them 'slick n quick' for use with 5e's rules. With these, 'attrition' is the thing that comes into play when both combatants are very well matched and neither rolls particularly out of the norm...but otherwise, the skies the limit.

HARP/RM characters have lots of HP's, potentially, and this fits in surprisingly well with 5e's "HP inflation" mentality as well. Should be able to just do a 1:1 use, really. As for adjustments to stuff (to hit penalties and whatnot), divide by 5 and you're golden. Using the A-E Critical Severity columns could be based on class and Adv/Disadv. Start with "C" as the base Critical Column; "pure" spell casters (wizards, warlocks, sorcerers) use "B"; "non" spell casters (fighters, barbarians, thieves, monks) use "D". Go up/down one column if you got to attack with Advantage or Disadvantage. After getting a natural 20 for your Critical, multiply the characters bonus to hit with that attack by 5 to get a "critical hit bonus", roll d100, add that critical hit bonus, look on chart. There you go. Should work fine now. You're welcome.

Now you don't have to bother trying to 'work out' some arcane system for using CR and all that in 5e...because CR is broken to begin with; always has been, always will be. Too many variables in a party's make up of race, class, spells, magic items, play style, etc. I wouldn't even bother with it. But using Critical Hit Charts (or whatever you want...I think there were some Critical Hit Deck cards put out for...Pathfinder?...maybe those?), well, that immediately opens the door for all sorts of nail biting action for any level character for any fight they get into. I mean, that bar maid that the barbarian just groped? She could grab a fork and stab said barbarian in the throat...killing him instantly. Not very likely, but possible...and just that possibility will have players (and their characters) thinking twice about getting into a situation that may get them killed.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[ProgBard]

[MENTION=1288]Mouseferatu[/MENTION], any chance you have an especially large group? Big parties play hell with encounter balance. (I run for a table of 7-8 PCs. They go through monsters like a stoner goes through pastries. It's kind of terrifying.)

Some things I've started to try:

-Encounters are boss monster + minions. Boss monster targets the tank. They can tell who the hard-hitter is.
-Depending on the enemy, party may be slightly outnumbered. Second-toughest PC gets ganged up on. Casters may be motivated to burn through heavy-hitting spells so they can dispose of their own foes to eb able to assist outnumbered companions.
-Waves of mooks that engage the party in a narrow enough space that their numbers don't swamp the PCs. The heroes will take out most of them easily and quickly. But the bad guys will get one or two lucky hits in before they get slaughtered, and the party's resources will be a little depleted - and then the boss and its tough lieutenants close in. Keep dialing up the numbers of mooks until this works.
-Some bastard always has magic missile.

 

[bedir than]

The danger here is that you end up in an unwinnable situation, where no amount of resting will help. If you can only get a long rest in a sanctuary, and it's a month of travel between sanctuaries, then you might end up two weeks out with someone at very few HP and no way to restore them at all. Once you're out of Hit Dice, the only healing that you can get out of a short rest comes from a Cleric of Life, and not all parties have one of those.

I guess I should explain and/or

long rest is a full day of rest or just 8 hours in sanctuary. Sanctuaries are rather easy to find in most towns or larger. Rangers, Druids, Outlanders and Barbarians can find one in the wildes.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Well, you can always jack up the CR of the monsters in a planned encounter by 3 points or so. Alternatively, in the age of bounded accuracy, lots of little critters pose quite a danger. I threw 20 kobolds armed with slings and having partial cover against 4 3rd level characters, and they nearly brought them all down. In any event, the party would risk no further combats that day, and were nearly out of spells from that one encounter. (Well, OK, two were winged, and one was a 3rd level caster, but he got away early on in the fight).

In 5E, goblins are even more terrifying than kobolds in a way. Stealth +6 and bonus action hide means they can lurk in the darkness outside your darkvision range and Hide, then pepper you with arrows at advantage at the start of their text turn before hiding again. Plus, they have a better AC than kobolds, more HP, hit harder with their weapons, and have more range (80/320 vs. 30/120) which in turn makes them less vulnerable to AoE effects like Fireball and makes them better at targeting the squishies. Theoretically, 31 goblins is an Easy fight for 4 11th level PCs, but if one of those PCs has AC 16 he's going to eat 130 points of damage per round if he gets caught out in the open... hasta la vista, baby.

 

[Rhenny]

I DM/play all my games using Fantasy Grounds now. If I wanted to use fewer monsters and have less encounters per day, I'd probably just give all monsters maximum hit points since it is an option in the setting of Fantasy Grounds and it would be an easy fix.

 

[Celtavian]

I really wish I could help you. I'm in the same boat. I've been dealing with it by writing monsters myself. I generally give it a CR relatively close to some comparable creature based on hit points, hit dice, and damage. I try to think about a solo creature or group of enemies in the same fashion as a NPC party, since those usually provide the most dangerous challenge to a PC party. Here's an example of a creature I created.

1. I gave it a huge amount of hit points to absorb heavy damage 5E characters do. Just Thursday a group of seven 5E characters easily did 126 points of damage in a single round with only five of them attacking. The stone giant they attacked died and the rogue and bard didn't even attack. We do play with feats and magic items. Sharpshooter is extremely nasty.

2. I'm currently experimenting with raising AC. ACs seem too low for solos and powerful creatures. PCs get to maximize their ACs and defenses to avoid monster damage, while monsters have to suffer with the limitations of Bounded Accuracy. So I've started adding AC enemies to increase survivability rather than more hit points.

3. I've tried to add abilities that combine attack and defense to creatures. The treant below heals when it strikes a creature. I have created another creature that has an effect that eliminates a PCs attacks for a round and causes them to hurt an allied PC of the creature's choice. I feel this better mirrors the capabilities of an NPC party. I've been trying to build legendary creatures in the same fashion I would an NPC party since that is usually the most powerful challenge a PC party faces. It's much easier to do in 5E with legendary and lair actions. You can make legendary and lair actions accomplish what a PC party with a wizard or cleric may have been able to do.

4. I base the CR on something close to the same. I don't elevate too much even if it looks it should be more on paper. I feel CR and xp should be based on what kind of challenge it poses to the party rather than a strict numbers game. It's definitely a rough estimate.

Brambleheart. Legendary Treant. Gargantuan Plant Neutral Evil
Armor Class 18 (natural armor); Hit Points 312 (16d20 + 96); Speed 30ft.
STR 24 (+7) DEX 8 (- 1) CON 22 (+6) INT 12 (+1) WIS 16 (+3) CHA 12 (+1)
Saves Str +11, Con +11, Wis +7
Skills Perception +7, Investigation +5, Athletics +11
Damage Resistances bludgeoning, piercing
Damage Vulnerabilities fire
Senses passive Perception 17
Languages Common, Druidic, Elvish, Sylvan
Challenge 12 (8400 XP)
False Appearance. While the treant remains motionless, it is indistinguishable from a normal tree.
Siege Monster. The treant deals double damage to objects and structures.
ACTIONS
Multiattack. The treant makes two slam attacks.
Slam. Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 4d6+7 bludgeoning damage.

Rock. Ranged Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, range 60/180 ft., one target. Hit: 28 (5d10+7) bludgeoning damage. 10: rocks scattered about the room in easy reach for the treants.

Animate Trees (1/Day). The treant magically animates one or two trees it can see within 60 feet of it. These trees have the same statistics as a treant, except they have Intelligence and Charisma scores of 1, they can't speak, and they have only the Slam action option. An animated tree acts as an ally of the treant. The tree remains animate for 1 day or until it dies; until the treant dies or is more than 120 feet from the tree; or until the treant takes a bonus action to turn it back into an inanimate tree. The tree then takes root if possible.

Legendary Resistance: 3/day. If the Brambleheart fails a saving throw, it can choose to succeed instead.

Legendary Actions: The treant can take 3 legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be usedat a time and only at the end of another creature's turn. The treant regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.

Blood-drinking Bramble: Melee Weapon Attack: +11 to hit, reach 30 ft., one target. Hit: 4d6+7 piercing damage.
The blood-drinking bramble stalk wraps the target in a thorny vine that drinks the blood of the target healing the treant. The target takes 6d6 necrotic damage that the treant heals. The target is restrained and must make a DC 19 strength check to escape from the bramble. The target does not take any more damage from the vine. It does take the blood drain every round. If the treant moves, the target gets dragged with the treant must make a DC 19 Dex save or Acrobatics check to stay on their feet. If they fail, they are knocked prone and dragged with the treant. A vine can be severed by doing 20 points of damage to it. It has an AC of 18. It has the same resistance to bludgeoning and piercing damage as the treant. Fire can burn the bramble to cinders. The treant is covered in the vines and can continue to attack with them indefinitely.

Rock (2 actions): Brambleheart can throw a second rock.

I'd advise you to take any gloves off or limitations you've imposed on yourself and start experimenting by making monsters you feel will challenge your group. If you have a group of enemies attacking PCs, make a legendary warlord that can move them around for extra attacks like pawns or get fallen soldiers up to attack further. If it's a solo, design it to do the equivalent of an NPC group giving it spells or abilities that heal it or have a powerful effect even if non-magical like spore clouds or the ability to fling dirt into eyes. Whatever works to make it fun, challenging, and believable.

 

[Jester David]

Can't you just use the Adventuring Day XP totals but spread out over fewer encounters.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I guess I should explain and/or

long rest is a full day of rest or just 8 hours in sanctuary. Sanctuaries are rather easy to find in most towns or larger. Rangers, Druids, Outlanders and Barbarians can find one in the wildes.

If sanctuaries can be found in any town, then I guess it comes down to how far apart the towns are spaced. If you can access one every day, or even every other day, then it's not really a significant limitation for the purposes of the topic at hand.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Nope, not a large group. 5 PCs, and none of the players are particularly skilled optimizers.

I keep forgetting the game even has "recommended encounter XP for a full adventuring day" numbers. (We don't track XP, just level every few games based on what's happened.) I'll try looking at those, but I'm afraid putting that many XP into a single encounter will prove devastating. I'm looking to challenge the party, not wipe it out. But I'll check.

 

[Celtavian]

I tried the adventuring xp total guidelines. Not much help at all.