Guns, D&D, and DDM

[Kae'Yoss]

First of all game designers can't even get out an encylopedia and record the weight of swords and armor correctly. And trying to make the combat system realistic is a nightmare.

I never bother with realistic in D&D. Realistic tends to be boring.

And the swords that are too heavy never ruined the game for me.

I want to be able to suspend my disbelief and I know way too much about firearms and the designers will CERTANLY get things wrong.

Have gotten wrong, you mean: The gunnes and rules are already in the D&D core rules.

They have all the basic ranged weapon specs, say that they need gunpowder in addition to ammo, and take a standard action to reload. That's basically all they say about it. They don't get into technical detail, and they don't really have to.

Plus when I play D&D I want to play sword and sorcery. I don't want to play with firearms in game. There are plenty of other settings for that and if I want to play that then I will play in one of those games. Let D&D stay sword and sorcery and have other games for firearms.

D&D is not a setting, it's a ruleset. D&D has settings. Many of those settings already include guns: Lots of d20 stuff, the old Spelljammer, Ravenloft, and the Forgotten Realms - the most successful D&D setting ever.

D&D supports tons of different games and stiles: High fantasy, apocalyptic fantasy, space fantasy, horror, and so much more, Eberron-type fantasy (with what is basically living robots).

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Uhm, they are in DDM already.

Nah. That's a crossbow. Dwarves seem to be heavily into weapon case modding

A few guns are ok

Noone asks for more - in DDM at least. That d20 Modern Minis game would need lots of them - along with chainsaws and katanas, of course.

 

[delericho]

Virtually all of the firearms rules I've seen for d20 are way over-complicated.

As for their use, it depends on the setting. If they fit, I use them, if they don't I don't.

For DDM? Well, I don't buy the figures, so I don't really care. But, if I did buy, I think I would be in the "maybe a few" camp.

 

[Tetsubo]

With the level of technology available in a D&D setting firearms just make sense. I make the gunpowder an alchemical substance. But in a world of +5 swords, Fireballs, Miracles and Psionics guns don't seem to me to be a game breaker...

 

[DreadPirateMurphy]

I think it depends entirely on the setting, but there is a problem with guns in a magical setting. I was, at first, a little surprised that Eberron didn't include any gunpowder weapons. It makes sense to not have them, though.

My understanding is that in the real world, early firearms were crude -- stick some powder and a projectile in a tube and light it with a match. You could penetrate armor with a gun, but you could do the same with a crossbow or a longbow. Guns didn't require the training of a longbow, of course, and they could compare favorably with a crossbow in dry weather. The primary benefit, in my opinion, was that they were psychologically intimidating, with blasts of smoke and fire and noise.

Frankly, I think a gun would do nothing more than draw a yawn from most people in a world where wizards throw lightning, craft complex illusions, and drop meteor storms on opposing armies. If you're going to spend a bunch of money, why not get a wand of magic missile that is guaranteed to never miss? Early guns would be relatively disappointing in comparison to readily available magic. How would you ever advance beyond the crude forms without an incentive to do so?

Modern firearms are, of course, much better than bows in most cases, but we have the advantage of modern chemisty, metallurgy, and manufacturing. A Glock in your typical D&D setting is the equivalent of a magic item.

If I were going to introduce guns to a campaign, they would either come from a low-magic region or another plane. Otherwise, I can't see why anybody would bother developing them.

 

[hong]

You don't need guns to be a sniper, or go John Woo on somebody.

 

[Wombat]

In a game? Sure, my last D20 campaign used matchlocks and wheellocks!

For minis? Don't use the bloody DDM things, never have, never will. Maybe some good quality metal historical figures, if the group demands a battle board...

That makes it pretty simple, neh?

 

[qstor]

Occassional. It depends on the campaign type, and 'feel'. If I'm doing Pirate or Three Musketeers D&D, darn right I want guns. If I'm doing standard middle ages or dark ages, no way.

Same here.

Mike

 

[Kae'Yoss]

In a game? Sure, my last D20 campaign used matchlocks and wheellocks!

For minis? Don't use the bloody DDM things, never have, never will. Maybe some good quality metal historical figures, if the group demands a battle board...

That makes it pretty simple, neh?

Yeah! Wash the blood away and start using them

Frankly, I think a gun would do nothing more than draw a yawn from most people in a world where wizards throw lightning, craft complex illusions, and drop meteor storms on opposing armies. If you're going to spend a bunch of money, why not get a wand of magic missile that is guaranteed to never miss? Early guns would be relatively disappointing in comparison to readily available magic. How would you ever advance beyond the crude forms without an incentive to do so?

...

If I were going to introduce guns to a campaign, they would either come from a low-magic region or another plane. Otherwise, I can't see why anybody would bother developing them.

The thing about a gunne is this: While an experienced wizard will do more damage with his magics, you don't have to be an experienced wizard. You don't have to be a wizard at all! That's why some wizards actually fear gunnes (and gunpowder): They put the power of a wizard into the hands of someone who never learned to wield that kind of power - and the responsibility this sort of power brings.

That's one reason for people to invent, produce, or trade in guns. They're a sort of equilizer. Those magelords might hog the arcane power and forbid the masses to learn it, but with those gunnes the masses could strike back.

The other thing is dislike for magic, or sheer love for invention, devices, crafts, and the like. Take Gond - the Faerûnian God of Craft, Inventions, and the like - for example: He's always eager to prove that his mechanical devices can compete with magic. It was him who, during the Time of Troubles, appeared in Lantan as a gnome and taught his faithful followers the secret of gunpowder. The Lantanese rock gnomes and humans have been making gunnes ever since.
They really won't replace magic, they won't be wide-spread, remaining but a novelty. But they won't go away either.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

If you want prepainted figures with guns, get MageKnight.

Cheers!

Except mageknight figures are ugly, have poor sculpts, are the wrong scale and dont have the right base size. You may as well be telling people to paint the figures themselves.

A gun now and then wouldnt bother me. I use them as the campaign warrants them. Al-Quadim? No. Ravenloft? Sure.