GURPS-Share your thoughts

[Conaill]

Out of curiosity, why do you consider the GURPS way better?

Because it's less of an abstraction, which allows me to stay more into the mind of my character during combat.

Hitpoints in D&D could mean just about anything - from a lowly commoner taking 1 hp of damage and being at the brink of death, to a high level PC taking a greataxe to the face and saying "well, that did leave me a little winded - a few more of those and I might actually start bleeding". Not to mention the fact that it apparently takes stronger magics to heal a badly wounded hero than a badly wounded commoner.

As for combat rounds, one thing I really like about GURPS is that you can *actively* defend yourself. You can step back from your opponent's blow, or try to deflect it with your own weapon, or block it with your shield, etc. Those are all options that will affect your chances of getting hit, as well as your positioning and your ability to reply to the attack. Sure, you could lump all those together into an amorphous AC bonus. But then again, you could probably come up with a combat resolution method where you lump *everything* together into one opposed roll for an entire combat.

Let's call it a 10-minute round: both opponents roll a d20, add their hitpoints, BAB, AC, as well as a +5 for every combat related efat they have. Higher number wins the combat, loser dies or is incapacitated. I'm guessing few people would be very happy with a combat mechanism like that for a PC-based game (although it migh be acceptable for a squad-based wargame). Well, I feel the same way about D&D combat rounds, in comparison with GURPS combat rounds...

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

There is also a certain amount of dramatic tension with short combat rounds.

In real life combat, one second can be a long time. Especially if you need to come to the aid of someone who is across the room. D&D characters can move a long way in a single round, and often do; GURPS characters need to think hard about the strategically best positions they can take, and if they turn out to be wrong about that, they will have a harder time getting out of it without becoming vulnerable...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Actually Harmyn, there is no flaw in my logic- I wasn't using any, just pointing out facts.

For the record, I have, in another thread, FLGS, I myself point out the selfsame fact...that online retailers buy in bulk and sell at low profit margins.

In fact, I go even further and bring up the claim (that some Attorney Generals & others are asserting) that some online retailers are engaging in predatory pricing, using "inexpensive" gaming products to cross-promote movies, novels, collectibles & games to gamers while simultaneously driving brick & mortar game stores out of business.

 

[Conaill]

Ah - so the conclusions you wanted us to draw were that some retailers are using predatory pricing, and not that prices for the books are plummetting because they suck?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

No.

I really was directing everyone to draw their own conclusions. I just wanted some actual $$$ figures in the thread for people to work with.

Prices can be low for a variety of reasons: a mistake*; predatory pricing; a directive from headquarters to get n underperforming dog of a product off its shelves with deep discounts; offering regulars a good deal; and many, many more.

A low price by itself, without evidence of why the price is low, means nothing.

Some retailers are using predatory pricing- at least according to allegations by people investigating them. Some RPGs are selling poorly, and sometimes its regional†.

* a buddy of mine found an incredible deal at Target once: M:TG cards for $4/box. Not per booster...per box. They had been mislabeled in the system, and that is how they rung up at the register.

† in the early days of M:TG, a particular FLGS in Austin typically had cards many weeks after the rest of the city was completely sold out. The reason? The owner had a buddy who ran a FLGS in Los Angeles that couldn't sell the game- nobody bought it. Despite the overwhelming trend in the game's sales, it wasn't working for him, so he'd "unload" this product on his buddy in Austin.

 

[harmyn]

No.

I really was directing everyone to draw their own conclusions. I just wanted some actual $$$ figures in the thread for people to work with.

Prices can be low for a variety of reasons: a mistake*; predatory pricing; a directive from headquarters to get n underperforming dog of a product off its shelves with deep discounts; offering regulars a good deal; and many, many more.

A low price by itself, without evidence of why the price is low, means nothing.

Some retailers are using predatory pricing- at least according to allegations by people investigating them. Some RPGs are selling poorly, and sometimes its regional†.

* a buddy of mine found an incredible deal at Target once: M:TG cards for $4/box. Not per booster...per box. They had been mislabeled in the system, and that is how they rung up at the register.

† in the early days of M:TG, a particular FLGS in Austin typically had cards many weeks after the rest of the city was completely sold out. The reason? The owner had a buddy who ran a FLGS in Los Angeles that couldn't sell the game- nobody bought it. Despite the overwhelming trend in the game's sales, it wasn't working for him, so he'd "unload" this product on his buddy in Austin.

What you say here is understandable and reasonable. But through limited word usage and by pointing out the GURPS books at a reduced price w/ no mention of any other company's books at a point in the thread where people were talking about quality and why a given set of books were reduced in price; your comments could very easily be misinterpreted to infer that the prices are low because of sales issues, not because Amazon and Books-A-Million were using predatory pricing tactics.

Next time you ask people to draw their own conclusions and not make an inference at the same time, you might want to better explain your position.

 

[Palaner]

Oh hell yes.

Sorry to bump up an old thread, but I just have to say this.

I am most fortunate to have such a great group of players. They were hardcore d20 fanatics until I showed them GURPS 4e. My god...I'm not trying to be overly hyperbolic, but I have never seen anyone so excited about a game, especially when all four of them are this excited.

When I came to the door Wednesday afternoon, one of them answered, "The BOOK. I need the BOOK." He then explained that he needed to change part of his character concept...something I'd never see in the same way with D&D. The other two players who came in that day to make characters were also intentionally not told the other two's concepts...because the latter didn't want them to be influenced.

Dare I mention the conversation that took place that afternoon...no, there was no other conversation. The guys talked about nothing but GURPS for hours. They roared with laughter over hilarious combinations and were impressed with interesting concepts. There was some confusion about Innate Attacks, but they are willing to see how it plays out.

Even after the character-building session I was receiving phone calls and IMs about what kinds of characters they wanted to play.

I don't know about you guys, but I am proud and delighted that my players are already having a blast creating characters. We're going to play a Back to the Future game next week...I'll keep you posted on what happens.

 

[ChristianW]

I am late to this, but I just want to throw in my two cents. I've played a lot of GURPS and I feel that it does an excellent job of "low fantasy."

I am attracted to GURPS because "hit points" never inflate. Getting hit with a sword hurts no matter how experienced a warrior is.

I appreciate the lack of classes. Characters are based upon skills, advantages, and disadvantages. The customization options are liberating.

Some aspects of the mechanics make a good deal of sense. For example, armor does not make one harder to hit. Armor reduces damage, as it should. Along this same vein, shields are extremely useful in play.

Damaged characters and bad guys show the effects of their wounds gradually. As a result, foes might not fight until the death simply because they are unable to do so. They fall over, pass out, etc.


On the downside, GURPS can be very complex...and expensive. Running a fantasy game might require a GM to purchase GURPS Campaigns, Characters, Magic, and Fantasy. That's about $140 right there. That's nuts.

There's not the kind of support I'd like. There's nothing like a Monster Manual. So much fo the work has to be done by a GM and emulating a D&D monster can take a great deal of work.


All in all, it's a darn fine game, but it's definitely a do it yourself system.

 

[Hairfoot]

one thing I really like about GURPS is that you can *actively* defend yourself. You can step back from your opponent's blow, or try to deflect it with your own weapon, or block it with your shield, etc. Those are all options that will affect your chances of getting hit, as well as your positioning and your ability to reply to the attack. Sure, you could lump all those together into an amorphous AC bonus.

I haven't played GURPS, but that sounds suspiciously like Palladium's micro-managed combat system where you choose parries, dodges, and rolling with blows to meet incoming attacks. Far from being less abstract than D&D, it reduces the violence and confusion of combat to comical, step-by-step choreography. A boxer doesn't stop to think "hmm. He's throwing a right, so I'll dodge it and punch him the guts. No, no, wait! I'll block it and step backward instead!" He just reacts.

But, again, I haven't played it.

 

[Palaner]

The two combat systems ARE pretty similar. However, GURPS's combat is time-structured, whereas Palladium's has an "anything goes" attitude. Siembieda suggests "hopping" to and from the more dramatic fights going on, making some players feel less important.

Like Jurgen said, GURPS should keep all players on their toes, simply because of the one-second system. Also, the system is complete; Palladium's makes you hunt through at least two or three books to find a certain rule.