GURPS - What is it?
- Thread starter Decamber
- Start date
I've played GURPS for several years, and think it is one of the best RPG systems. Needless to say, I don't agree with all of what nsruf wrote.
I personally don't think there is one true RPG system that fits every need. Pick a system that fits the type of action you are trying for.
There is a fairly long list of GURPS books that have been printed. You can easily get complete and current errata for all of their books online. Playtesting of their materials is avaiable to any Pyramid subscriber, and is fairly easy to participate in. The playtesters use a newsgroup to make comments in, a lead playtester helps the author's sort through the comments.
The GURPS historical books can be very useful regardless of what game system you use. They are well researched and concise descriptions of historic or mythic periods which can help you fill in your game background regardless of what system you use.
The GURPS setting books (CthuluPunk, Technomancer, Fantasy) tend to be more involved in rules, but some people still find them useful.
The GURPS Rules books (Basic Set, Magic, Grimoire, Martial Arts, Vehicles) are typically only worthwhile if you are running a GURPS game.
As a player, it would be easy to get by with just the GURPS Lite ruleset. Many GMs find it useful to pick up between 3-5 other supplements to flesh things out. If a player plays a Mage, they will most likely quickly find themselves wanting GURPS Magic.
Now, about the rules themselves.
As a GURPS GM, you must review every character submission to make sure it is appropriate to the type of game you want to play. It usually works best to work with a player to create the type of character they want, so that a total rewrite isn't required. You must be willing to say No to characters you don't like.
Don't use all the rules. Let me repeat that: Don't use all the rules. Only use the rules that are appropriate for your game and the level of detail your are comfortable with. You can even switch based on circumstance. Many people use basic combat when it is a minor fight (makes things go faster) then switch to minitures and use parts of advanced combat for dramatic fights.
Creating a character requires lots of addition, some table lookup, and a very minor amount of division. There are a wide selection of computer aids available for the system, including multiple character generation programs.
I totally agree with nsruf that points are not an effective measure of character balance. It is a common misconception that they should be. It is a much better indication of how unusual the character is than how powerful.
I disagree that it causes more munchkinism than other systems or even less complex. Look on the boards at all the requests to min/max D20 characters. You get people recommending specific combinations of classes, PrC, skills, magic items and such. Personally, I find D20 much more open to munchkinizing than GURPS.
It is much easier to customize a character than in D20. Given a good GURPS GM, it is also much easier to run a character in GURPS than D20. If you can describe your actions, the GM can usually fit them to the GURPS mechanics without problem. I always feel like I'm in a straight jacket when playing D20 because I have to wait to 'level' before adding any skills to a character. If I spend a month living in another country, I should be able to learn a smattering of the language.
Combat in GURPS tends to be much more gritty. Getting outnumbered in GURPS is a lot more dangerous than in D20. If you feel that D20 is too cinematic, you should probably investigate GURPS.
A bad GURPS GM can totally wreck the enjoyment of the system. It sounds as if several people have already met them. A good GURPS GM can make it a lot of fun.
[ Edit: Fix URL formatting. ]
I personally don't think there is one true RPG system that fits every need. Pick a system that fits the type of action you are trying for.
There is a fairly long list of GURPS books that have been printed. You can easily get complete and current errata for all of their books online. Playtesting of their materials is avaiable to any Pyramid subscriber, and is fairly easy to participate in. The playtesters use a newsgroup to make comments in, a lead playtester helps the author's sort through the comments.
The GURPS historical books can be very useful regardless of what game system you use. They are well researched and concise descriptions of historic or mythic periods which can help you fill in your game background regardless of what system you use.
The GURPS setting books (CthuluPunk, Technomancer, Fantasy) tend to be more involved in rules, but some people still find them useful.
The GURPS Rules books (Basic Set, Magic, Grimoire, Martial Arts, Vehicles) are typically only worthwhile if you are running a GURPS game.
As a player, it would be easy to get by with just the GURPS Lite ruleset. Many GMs find it useful to pick up between 3-5 other supplements to flesh things out. If a player plays a Mage, they will most likely quickly find themselves wanting GURPS Magic.
Now, about the rules themselves.
As a GURPS GM, you must review every character submission to make sure it is appropriate to the type of game you want to play. It usually works best to work with a player to create the type of character they want, so that a total rewrite isn't required. You must be willing to say No to characters you don't like.
Don't use all the rules. Let me repeat that: Don't use all the rules. Only use the rules that are appropriate for your game and the level of detail your are comfortable with. You can even switch based on circumstance. Many people use basic combat when it is a minor fight (makes things go faster) then switch to minitures and use parts of advanced combat for dramatic fights.
Creating a character requires lots of addition, some table lookup, and a very minor amount of division. There are a wide selection of computer aids available for the system, including multiple character generation programs.
I totally agree with nsruf that points are not an effective measure of character balance. It is a common misconception that they should be. It is a much better indication of how unusual the character is than how powerful.
I disagree that it causes more munchkinism than other systems or even less complex. Look on the boards at all the requests to min/max D20 characters. You get people recommending specific combinations of classes, PrC, skills, magic items and such. Personally, I find D20 much more open to munchkinizing than GURPS.
It is much easier to customize a character than in D20. Given a good GURPS GM, it is also much easier to run a character in GURPS than D20. If you can describe your actions, the GM can usually fit them to the GURPS mechanics without problem. I always feel like I'm in a straight jacket when playing D20 because I have to wait to 'level' before adding any skills to a character. If I spend a month living in another country, I should be able to learn a smattering of the language.
Combat in GURPS tends to be much more gritty. Getting outnumbered in GURPS is a lot more dangerous than in D20. If you feel that D20 is too cinematic, you should probably investigate GURPS.
A bad GURPS GM can totally wreck the enjoyment of the system. It sounds as if several people have already met them. A good GURPS GM can make it a lot of fun.
[ Edit: Fix URL formatting. ]
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Green Knight
First Post
GURPS was the very first RPG I had ever played, back in 1990. (AD&D was the second) It was pretty fun, though the GM has GOT to keep an eye on the disadvantages, as they can get out of control in the hands of min/maxers. Take me, for example. There's a disadvantage that says you get extra points for every family member you have that's in danger, and the points you get vary depending how in danger your family members are. So what happened was I ended up taking my entire family with me on a wagon whenever my GURPS Fantasy character went adventuring. My character would be travelling through the woods oh his wagon, with his wife, his 6 kids, and his grandparents!
Another player in a GURPS Supers game took the disadvantage of having enemies several times. Who were his enemies? The entire populations of the planets Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn! And they showed up on a 12+ on 3D6 in every adventure, no matter what!
So you gotta have a vigilant GM, otherwise it gets slightly out of hand.
But yeah, I think GURPS is a pretty good system. I'd like to play it, again.
Another player in a GURPS Supers game took the disadvantage of having enemies several times. Who were his enemies? The entire populations of the planets Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn! And they showed up on a 12+ on 3D6 in every adventure, no matter what!
So you gotta have a vigilant GM, otherwise it gets slightly out of hand.
But yeah, I think GURPS is a pretty good system. I'd like to play it, again.bret said:
Maybe I didn't make that clear enough: GURPS suited my style of play for a while, but currently, d20 does the trick. I was dwelling mostly on the negative because Darklance asked for it.
Problem is, I found that I was forced to say "No!" all to often. And I think that is a good indicator to switch rules systems.
The problem peculiar to GURPS is that munchkin characters also tend to look alike a lot. E.g. having DX 15 and 2 points in every athletic and stealth skill, just because it is so darn cost-effective. And add combat reflexes while you are at it...
A muchkinny D&D character will at least have high stats and selected feats appropriate for his class and race.
Or tried hard not to be one
I've been playing GURPS since 1993, and have really enjoyed it overall. My pros and cons list:
Pros
- Realistic and detailed
- Very flexible
- Well supported, many sourcebooks
- High production values from every book
- Many materials can be used in other systems
Cons
- Character creation and skills mechanics are a bear
- Requires players willing to play a character rather than play the system
- Doesn't "feel" quite right in certain genres
I've never liked the way GURPS played in a fantasy (i.e., heroic or epic fantasy) campaign - to me it lacked color or flavor. The default magic system doesn't seem very magical, if you get my meaning. GURPS Supers lacks something too. I think the high degree of realism works against it in these genres.
On the other hand, I prefer GURPS for low-magic fantasy, historical, near future and far future genres. The detail works in its favor here.
Lastly, the source books can be very useful in other systems. The Magic book has a wealth of ideas for alternate magic systems, and the Martial Arts and Psionics books have some good ideas ready for conversion as well.
I give it a thumbs up, but if you're looking for heroic fantasy I'd stick with 3e.
--- John
Pros
- Realistic and detailed
- Very flexible
- Well supported, many sourcebooks
- High production values from every book
- Many materials can be used in other systems
Cons
- Character creation and skills mechanics are a bear
- Requires players willing to play a character rather than play the system
- Doesn't "feel" quite right in certain genres
I've never liked the way GURPS played in a fantasy (i.e., heroic or epic fantasy) campaign - to me it lacked color or flavor. The default magic system doesn't seem very magical, if you get my meaning. GURPS Supers lacks something too. I think the high degree of realism works against it in these genres.
On the other hand, I prefer GURPS for low-magic fantasy, historical, near future and far future genres. The detail works in its favor here.
Lastly, the source books can be very useful in other systems. The Magic book has a wealth of ideas for alternate magic systems, and the Martial Arts and Psionics books have some good ideas ready for conversion as well.
I give it a thumbs up, but if you're looking for heroic fantasy I'd stick with 3e.
--- John
The Cardinal
First Post
Aaron L said:
it's highly recommended: I ran one of my greatest campaigns ever in GURPS Cthulhupunk (over 3.5 years realtime...)
- currently I'm seriously considering a "Transyuggothian Space" campaign, i.e. mixing Transhuman Space and Cthulhupunk...
nsruf said:
When I said that there is no one true RPG, I really did mean it. Given what you said, D20 is the right answer for you. Overall, I think that they did a great job with DnD 3e.
The game systems I like best are GURPS, Feng Shui, TORG, and Champions. Which system I would use is mostly determined by the type of campaign I would be running.
In general, I don't like class based systems. The reason is I don't like stereotypes. They have finally added enough flexibility to 3e where I will once again play DnD. It still (from my point of view) forces stereotypes on everyone, but gives enough flexibility to offset this somewhat. I also find that for me the rules sometimes get in the way of just imagining the tactical situation and reacting to that.
In GURPS, the campaign guidelines determine what powers you can or cannot have and how they can mix. You could have a Mage (anyone who casts spells) who is a genetically engineered person who wears Combat Infantry Dress, has Cybernetic Legs, and a rifle with full HUD link. You can have campaign specific limitations (those social issues that WotC says don't work) that may limit what is acceptable behavior, but the whole system doesn't break down when you start mixing divergent elements like this.
Note that the above character would require many more points than most GMs allow a starting character.
Picking skills is more a matter of forming a character concept and then following it than picking a class. There are also the various template books such as Wizards or warriors can help quite a bit, especially for players not used to building fully custom characters.
jdfrenzel said:
I couldn't have set it better myself!
GURPS is my favorite system bar none but there are flaws
1- Combat is lethal, the last time a ran a major battle with skilled PC's It lasted about three seconds! 3 dead mooks, 1 surrendered very nasty.
This is very realistic but if your players are like mine and prefer 2-3 fights per session it can be disapointing. A lot of combat means a lot of dead or mangled PC's
Also as mentioned before Combat with all the options can be slow unless you are really good at running them.
2-Character generation almost certainly requires a concept. In DND you can say "I'll play the mage" but GURPS requires major planning before play
3- GURPS is mostly good for Cinematic and Realistic settings mainly. It is not as good for Supers (except gritty stuff like the TV version of Witchblade or Wildcards) and it is not that great for heroic fantasy in the DND style.
It does Conan very nicely though
4-The world books are detailed and mostly systemless but are bland if you are used to the detail and crunchiness of DND worlds.
5- Most importantly, It is much easier to find DND players than GURPS ones.
