D&D 5E GWM+Longbow

[TrueBagelMan]

Now hear me out, Great Weapon Master I know is meant for heavy melee weapons, but still technically works for a longbow. If you used as an improvised weapon it technically is a heavy weapon used as melee. To use the damage increase it needs to be a heavy weapon and used for melee. Not a melee weapon that’s heavy. Did I find an interesting way to use GWM or did I just read it wrong?

Great Weapon Master Feat.
You’ve learned to put the weight of a weapon to your advantage, letting its momentum empower your strikes. You gain the following benefits:

• On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
• Before you make a melee attack with a heavy weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage.

 

[jaelis]

IMO when you use something as an improvised weapon it is, ipso facto, not a weapon. Otherwise you’d apply your proficiency bonus, no? And if it’s not a weapon then it’s not a heavy weapon.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

If you strike something with your longbow, don't expect to be able to use it as a longbow for much longer. It is an instrument optimized to handle enormous stresses of a variety almost entirely different than the ones you have just subjected it to. If you want to be able to bludgeon somebody with your ranged weapon, I recommend you instead invest in a crossbow with a sturdy butt.

I'm also not sure what would be so great about using a longbow with GWM even if it did work.

 

[Fenris-77]

No. That is all. You aren't proficient with improvised weapons and so don't qualify for the -5/+10. However...

If you had Tavern Brawler, then we'd have something to argue about, because then you would be proficient with improvised weapons. That's pretty silly, but it at least meets the requirements of the RAW for GWM.

 

[MikalC]

An improvised weapon is NOT a heavy weapon.
its category is improvised. That’s why, regardless of what you use, the improvised weapon does the same damage.

 

[Fenris-77]

An improvised weapon is NOT a heavy weapon.
its category is improvised. That’s why, regardless of what you use, the improvised weapon does the same damage.

You sure about that? It's a weapon with the Heavy quality that counts as improvised in melee. It meets the three points for the second part of GWM. Making a melee attack? Check. Does the weapon have the heavy quality? Check. Is the weapon one the character is proficient in? Check. The fact that it counts as improvised in melee doesn't change any of those answers, as silly as the result might be.

 

[MikalC]

You sure about that? It's a weapon with the Heavy quality that counts as improvised in melee. It meets the three points for the second part of GWM. Making a melee attack? Check. Does the weapon have the heavy quality? Check. Is the weapon one the character is proficient in? Check. The fact that it counts as improvised in melee doesn't change any of those answers, as silly as the result might be.

its a weapon with the heavy quality when used as a longbow.

when it becomes an improvised weapon it loses all traits, doing 1d4+str damage only.
The only quality you get for using a ranged weapon as a melee is the 1d4+str with a str based attack roll.

as such, it loses the heavy tag when used as a melee weapon. If the ranged weapon kept its qualities the rules would say so, but they don’t. They only say an improvised weapon does 1d4+str. Whether it’s a table leg, table, sack of rocks, or a longbow in melee.
Edit: it also can be thrown at a 20/60 range.

 

[Krachek]

Now hear me out, Great Weapon Master I know is meant for heavy melee weapons, but still technically works for a longbow. If you used as an improvised weapon it technically is a heavy weapon used as melee. To use the damage increase it needs to be a heavy weapon and used for melee. Not a melee weapon that’s heavy. Did I find an interesting way to use GWM or did I just read it wrong?

Great Weapon Master Feat.
You’ve learned to put the weight of a weapon to your advantage, letting its momentum empower your strikes. You gain the following benefits:

• On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
• Before you make a melee attack with a heavy weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack’s damage.

I think you read what you want to read.
it need some common sense to read the rules, you may turn the sentence up side down, and try to find untold mysteries, but there are not.

 

[Fenris-77]

its a weapon with the heavy quality when used as a longbow.

when it becomes an improvised weapon it loses all traits, doing 1d4+str damage only.
The only quality you get for using a ranged weapon as a melee is the 1d4+str with a str based attack roll.
as such, it loses the heavy tag when used as a melee weapon. If the ranged weapon kept its qualities the rules would say so, but they don’t. They only say an improvised weapon does 1d4+str. Whether it’s a table leg, table, sack of rocks, or a longbow in melee.
Edit: it also can be thrown at a 20/60 range.

Can you show me where the rule is that says that it loses all it's other traits? Or is that your opinion? It certainly doesn't say that in the PHB under the listing for improvised weapons. All the PHB says is that ranged weapons used in melee do a d4 damage. Nothing there about losing their descriptors.

As far as the bolded text goes, I'd bet that's where we differ. All they do say is that is does a d4 damage in melee. They don't say anything else changes. It even makes sense that it doesn't change: the Heavy quality refers to, I quote, the size and bulk of the weapon. That doesn't change just because you're thumping someone with it. Would you allow a Gnome to attack with a longbow in melee without disadvantage?

The crux of this is that you argue that the longbow loses all it's other qualities when used in melee. That's what you would need to prove is the case in order to be right. I'm not being confrontational, the whole idea is a little silly for that, but there's a key bit of interpretation here.

 

[the Jester]

Now hear me out, Great Weapon Master I know is meant for heavy melee weapons, but still technically works for a longbow. If you used as an improvised weapon it technically is a heavy weapon used as melee.

This is a wonderful example of a place where the 5e mantra "Rulings, not rules" shows its strength.