half orcs and orc double axe

[Alchemist]

Well, since none of the core books mention any of the races in contention having these proficiences, I would say that "No, there is no automatic proficiency for races when using special race-specific weapons in existing rules".

Unless I'm mistaken and somebody can point out rule book pages...

Until then...

 

[dcollins]

If at some point we have a definitive "No, there is no automatic proficiency for races when using special race-specific weapons in existing rules" then we can take the issue to the house-rules forum.

On PH p. 37, the sample dwarven fighter is shown needing to spend a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency (dwarven waraxe) in order to use his dwarven waraxe.

 

[Mistwell]

Well, since none of the core books mention any of the races in contention having these proficiences,

Again, the Half-Orc entry in the PHB page 19, under "Orc Blood" it says:

Half-orcs, for example, can use special orc weapons...

Then, the Orc Double Axes entry in the PHB page 99:

An orc double axe...

Note the title of the weapon is directly incorporated into the description. This isn't fluff in my opinion. I believe it is a special orc weapon. If it is a special orc weapon, the half-orc is proficient in it because of their "Orc Blood" bonus.

I can understand people not agreeing with this interpretation (I myself am playing a bit of the devil's advocate to lend some support to the original poster to this thread). However, I think the argument is strong enough to warrant more than just "It doesn't say that, so it must not be so". If "special orc weapons" means something, then we should try to determine what is meant. Simply dismissing the "Orc-Blood" bonus without analysis is, in my opinion, selling the half-orc short.

 

[Dagger75]

I have used the Orc Blood thing in my game. I had Orcs make Composite long bows spefically for them. The half orc was able to use the bow just fine, the other characters where at a -4. Nothing fancy just a idea I threw in there to use Orc Blood.

 

[Caliban]

Note the title of the weapon is directly incorporated into the description. This isn't fluff in my opinion. I believe it is a special orc weapon. If it is a special orc weapon, the half-orc is proficient in it because of their "Orc Blood" bonus.

I believe that's a lot of BS.

It's an orc weapon, but I see absolutely no way you can define it as a "special orc weapon", because ANYONE can gain proficiency in it.

Just because some orcs happen to use it a lot, or an orc weaponsmith might have created the first one, does not mean it has a mystical connection to the orcish race.

A "special orc weapon" is simply a magic weapon with certain properties that only function for orcs.

And quite simply, if the double-axe were an "orc special weapon", then the orcs in the MM would be listed with proficiency with it, even if they had penalties when wielding it. They do not list this proficiency, therefore it's not an automatic proficiency for orcs, and not a special quality of orc blood. Period.

 

[HellHound]

I've never seen such a weapon in any published module or accessory (though hopefully it does exist somewhere).

Citadel by the Sea. Dragon Magazine. Somewhere around 1983 I think. Very good module with lots of orc-specific goodies.

 

[Tewligan]

Citadel by the Sea. Dragon Magazine. Somewhere around 1983 I think. Very good module with lots of orc-specific goodies.

Oooh, man. After reading the first couple of posts in this thread, I thought of that. You beat me to the punch. That was the first issue of Dragon I ever got, and that module rocked hard. Wasn't that the issue with the write-up on the Deryni also?

 

[Alchemist]

Again, the Half-Orc entry in the PHB page 19, under "Orc Blood" it says:


Then, the Orc Double Axes entry in the PHB page 99:



Note the title of the weapon is directly incorporated into the description. This isn't fluff in my opinion. I believe it is a special orc weapon. If it is a special orc weapon, the half-orc is proficient in it because of their "Orc Blood" bonus.

I can understand people not agreeing with this interpretation (I myself am playing a bit of the devil's advocate to lend some support to the original poster to this thread). However, I think the argument is strong enough to warrant more than just "It doesn't say that, so it must not be so". If "special orc weapons" means something, then we should try to determine what is meant. Simply dismissing the "Orc-Blood" bonus without analysis is, in my opinion, selling the half-orc short.

I feel it is fluff. I think that the "special" is in reference to magic items that are keyed to orcish blood, not to weapons with no magical powers that happen to have orc in the name.

I agree that orcs and dwarves and halflings and whatnot *shoud* get proficiencies in racial weapons by default. I don't see anywhere that they actually do, especially with the dwarven fighter having to spend a feat on the dwarven special weapon. That fact pretty much shoots your argument down.

Again, I think it would be good flavour for the races to get proficiency but that would most certainly be house ruled, because it is most certainly not in the rules as it stands.

 

[Mistwell]

A "special orc weapon" is simply a magic weapon with certain properties that only function for orcs.

Again, special orc weapons are a distinct class of items from magic items with properties that only function for orcs. The PHB makes this very clear. It describes BOTH types of weapons. One is mundane, one is magic, both are keyed to orcs, both are usable by Half-orcs as if they were orcs. However, they are not the same type of item. If you don't believe me, go read the orc-blood entry yourself. It's pretty clear.

 

[reapersaurus]

Look.

Any DM that I was playing with that would deny a half-orc PC that really wanted the use of those 2 orc weapons just because it's not in the rules can bite me. Whatever happened to players working together to make a game better? (and a DM is just another player in a social activity, when you think about it)

I think you would be correct if you said by the rules half-orcs don't get the proficiencies.

That's why god invented House Rules - to fix oversights in the published rules.