Half-orcs and why people think they are/aren't powerful

[JoeBlank]

That being said, I think they deserve a +2 racial bonus to hit points. Half-Orcs having the same number of starting hit points as a halfling of the same class is just silly.

I agree with CZ, you are on to something good here.

Let's take it one step far beyond, how about half-orcs get a free toughness feat?

That only figures to +3 hp to start (which is a pretty nice boost), but it also makes it easier for half-orcs to qualify for PrCs that require the toughness feat. Makes sense, the brutes should have an natural inclination towards such PrCs.

 

[Terath Ninir]

That only figures to +3 hp to start (which is a pretty nice boost), but it also makes it easier for half-orcs to qualify for PrCs that require the toughness feat. Makes sense, the brutes should have an natural inclination towards such PrCs.

That could work. It's not much of a boost, but it's in the character of the race. (I would then give it as a bonus feat to orcs, too, of course). It also makes them *different* from the other races, which is a problem I've always had with them. Too boring.

 

[Moulin Rogue]

What about the Monstrous Mien feature from the half-orc paragon in Unearthed Arcana? If the smooth talking of the rogue or bard can't get it done, a half-orc with this together with some Indimidate ranks could be very useful in an information-gathering kind of campaign.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

Going off topic right quick, then I'll get back on.

some marginally useful (+1 to hit orcs and goblins, +4 dodge bonus vs giants)

As a seasoned dwarf player I can tell you that those two abilities are not marginally useful in a standard campaign, they are in fact quite useful. I'm running a Ftr2/Clr4 dwarf who has an AC of 29 against giants. We don't fight giants all the time, but it comes up often enough. Don't forget that two really common 'big bads' at the lower levels are giants: ogres and trolls (this is predominantly what I've faced off against). While the abilities are not as good as the save bonuses, they are just another great asset to the already (over?)powerful dwarf.

As for half-orcs, I hate all half-races as a general thing. I don't buy that two different species can procreate, even in a magical fantasy world (far as I know, conception is still mundane in D&D). That said, I think part of the 'balance' from the half-races comes from the fact that a lot of people think they are 'cool' and are 'easy to roleplay' or something like that. It's hogwash, as we've all discovered that you can't balance a mechanic with a roleplaying restriction (or vice versa), not truly.

Another thing about half-orcs is their susceptability to favored enemy (orc) and orc slaying weapons and the like. I mean, you don't really see a lot of human-slayers or gnome-slayers lying around in the treasure piles, do you? Bad guys ever come after ya with a +2 flaming halfling slayer just to nail your party rogue? None too often.

What really amazed me about this race was that at first, wizards was clamoring that all stats were equal before 3e came out; then this guy has + on one and - on two. What? With their paltry racial abilities, losing 2 stats is simply crap. Given that they get virtually no other bonuses I think that only losing Int or Cha would be fine, although I'd rather see them lose Dex and actually get some cool racial abilities for a change. I don't really even use the race anyway (like I said, half breeds suck) but it'd be nice if other people could and not feel somewhat cheated. The +2 str is awesome, but if that's all you really get and you lose out on 2 other stats you're just not getting a good deal.

 

[Sejs]

What's always bugged me about half orcs is how they get their strength, and they get their darkvision, and that's it. No skill mods. No anything else that's even slightly interesting or useful. Just strength and darkvision.


Talk about dull and underdeveloped. Half Orcs are like the wonderbread of the D&D races. Sure, it'll keep you from starving to death, but you've really got to put something else on it if you want to enjoy your meal.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

On a side-note: I agree with Old Gumphrey about the flavor of "half" races. IMC I changed the half-orc, making it a race that breeds true, called a "half-orc" by other races as a racial slur because of a resemblance to true orcs. Like calling a man a neanderthal. (sp?)

But on the topic at hand, I think the half-orc is a great race, if not the greatest race, for fighters and barbarians, who don't have the skill list or skill points to be great diplomats in the city anyway. Their job is to kill things, and that +2 strength is the only way to start the game with a 20 strength at 1st-level. Yes, they pay for that bonus heavily, but it's from non-combat stats. For a PC that will be crap in non-combat situations anyway, it's not as heavy a penalty.

I'd also say it's not really productive to compare the half-orc to the dwarf, since the dwarf is, IMO, plainly overpowered. Either that, or add the human and the half-elf onto the nerfed list.

 

[billd91]

What's always bugged me about half orcs is how they get their strength, and they get their darkvision, and that's it. No skill mods. No anything else that's even slightly interesting or useful. Just strength and darkvision.


Talk about dull and underdeveloped. Half Orcs are like the wonderbread of the D&D races. Sure, it'll keep you from starving to death, but you've really got to put something else on it if you want to enjoy your meal.

That's what pretty much does it for me too. At first I really thought that having 2 penalty stats to balance one bonus was a bit harsh. After all, Charisma isn't supposed to be a dump stat any more, isn't it? Well, it isn't for some classes, I guess. And an intelligence penalty is nothing to sneeze at now since all classes can make use of skill points.

But what really gets me is the lack of flavor bonuses that every other class gets, and in the case of 3.5 dwarves and halflings, gets out the wazoo. Having played half-orcs from time to time since 1st edition, I'd give them a bonus to climb like they had back in the day (and can someone explain to me why halfllings, not having near the ability to reach handholds and such, get a racial bonus to climb?). I'd give them a racial bonus to intimidate to negate the charisma penalty + a little bit more. They're supposed to have a reputation for ferocity, right? I'd consider giving them a bonus on some kinds of Fort saves. They did used to get a +1 on their Con back in the day and it would be nice to reflect that extra bit of health somehow.
That might do it.
Anyway, I can see giving gnomes and halflings a little more bonus than others get. Sure, they're at +1 to hit and AC, but that bonus to hit just balances with their strength penalties. The big thing now in 3.5 is getting saddled with wussy small weapons. So I don't grudge a little extra going their way. And the new 3.5 stuff for dwarves is relatively minor flavor. But the half-orcs get no love from the designers... at least not involving anything out of combat. And that might underscore a serious issue with the 3.5 revision in general...

 

[Lord Pendragon]

(and can someone explain to me why halfllings, not having near the ability to reach handholds and such, get a racial bonus to climb?).

It's easier to climb when you're smaller. You're more flexible, and your weight is not an issue as it is when you get bigger (the weight factor increases at a greater rate than strength, with regards to size.) I'm sure if you think about it, you had an easier time climbing trees when you were 12 than you do today.

 

[HellHound]

Back to the argument about half-orcs, most people who feel there is no issue with them (like myself) just got bored of the arguments and stopped reading them a couple of years ago.

To me, Half-Orcs are balanced.

 

[Pax]

What's always bugged me about half orcs is how they get their strength, and they get their darkvision, and that's it. No skill mods. No anything else that's even slightly interesting or useful. Just strength and darkvision.

Talk about dull and underdeveloped. Half Orcs are like the wonderbread of the D&D races. Sure, it'll keep you from starving to death, but you've really got to put something else on it if you want to enjoy your meal.

Give that man a prize, folks! You just hit "the reason why Pax doesn't play halforcs" on the head. Which is really a shame, 'cause I can see such good possibilities for 'em.

In a similar vein to the "free Toughness feat" idea, why not just give +1hp per level ... ? Sure, that 10th level Halforc will have 10 extra hitpoints. What's that, one extra sword-swipe form some ofthe BBEG's cannon-fodder, or one-QUARTER of a hit from the BBEG himself? Big deal - but it's unique, just like the Human "bonus feat and +1 skill point per level" abilities are. There's evena feat that models this - Improved Toughness.

IMC, I may do that, and the free Toughness. Yes, that'll be a big boost at 1st level (+4hp total), but considering that such a character is gonna be the one taking the hits at that level ... well, the longer the tank's HP last, the longer it is before your HP start going down. IOW, the Halforc's longer survival capacity, means longer survival options for the whole party.

And besides, it gives Halforcs somehting to crow about: "Elves get the dex and insomnia, halflings get to be small and sneaky, dwarves get to be dour and tough as nails, humans get to be versatile, gnomes get to be, er ... annoying ... but WE get to take hits, and LIKE 'em!".

*shrug*