hamper this paladin

[apesamongus]

OK, I'm running a pretty high powered gestalt campaign, and I want to marginalize a paladin (lev 12) in one specific combat - I want him too busy to do much, but not killed. He's gestalted to have all good saves and has a high charisma, so he seldom fails a save. He's very strong, so grappling and evards are pretty much useless. I can hit him, but without being able to force a failed save, that doesn't do much besides whittle down some HP, which isn't what I need. So, any really hampering spells that don't have saves? And way to totally wreck his saves (that don't allow saves themselves)?

 

[reveal]

OK, I'm running a pretty high powered gestalt campaign, and I want to marginalize a paladin (lev 12) in one specific combat - I want him too busy to do much, but not killed. He's gestalted to have all good saves and has a high charisma, so he seldom fails a save. He's very strong, so grappling and evards are pretty much useless. I can hit him, but without being able to force a failed save, that doesn't do much besides whittle down some HP, which isn't what I need. So, any really hampering spells that don't have saves? And way to totally wreck his saves (that don't allow saves themselves)?

Greater Shadows. 9HD, so a group of them will not be turned easily by a 12th level paladin and they have +2 turn resistance. Touch attacks (paladins usually have sub-par touch ACs) deal 1d8 STR damage. They are also incorporeal, so there's a 50% miss chance. They can also move through solid objects at will and are known for their hit-and-run tactics.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadow.htm

 

[Thanee]

Otto's Irresistible Dance?

A Fatespinner can 'wreck' his saves for one spell with their 5th level ability.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Caliban]

OK, I'm running a pretty high powered gestalt campaign, and I want to marginalize a paladin (lev 12) in one specific combat - I want him too busy to do much, but not killed. He's gestalted to have all good saves and has a high charisma, so he seldom fails a save. He's very strong, so grappling and evards are pretty much useless. I can hit him, but without being able to force a failed save, that doesn't do much besides whittle down some HP, which isn't what I need. So, any really hampering spells that don't have saves? And way to totally wreck his saves (that don't allow saves themselves)?

Force Cage

Put an innocent in danger that he will feel compelled to rescue.

Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement followed by a Web spell.

 

[Scion]

He is a paladin, you dont really need elaborate setups, you just need for him to need to do something in order to not break his code.

As caliban said, put someone in harms way. let the paladin know that something is going on that he needs to do something about 'right now'. Dont make it far away or overly elaborate or something that he will feel is pushing him to break his code (lesser of two evils kind of deal).

or you can make it so that he needs to capture person X alive. This means special precautions must be taken. This can be a huge slowly factor and it makes the character need to do something (and by this the player must get more involved).

Failing that however being entangled (there are quite a few ways, from tanglefoot bags all the way up to things like web spells), enfeebled (this will make him very weak for a long time), and/or enervation.

Of these enervation will likely do everything you want at the same time. However, it is only a d4 for each casting (although it can crit).

If you allow the paladin to stand in the way of another person protecting them (generally not possible with the core rules) then he could spend his actions getting in the way of attacks directed at the other person. Generally this would disallow a number of different saving throw types.


Or I suppose you could simply get a bane weapon with his race, his alignment, maybe even vs divine casters, and possibly even something else. Being attacked by a +9 weapon with an extra +8d6 extra damage will make anyone take notice.

 

[Mark Chance]

Ray of enfeeblement. No save allowed. Assuming a 10th-level caster, a minimum 6 point penalty to Strength is nothing to sneeze at. Rather than focus on affecting the paladin, affect the paladin's foes. Blink and/or greater blink are good starts, especially for a rogue or rogue-like enemy. Greater invisibility is also good, especially if cast on a high-mobility foe. Take the paladin's toys away: disarm, sunder, et cetera.

Of course, if the foes are deliberately targeting the paladin with tactics designed specifically for him, there ought to be an in-game reason for the villains to have this knowledge, et cetera. Otherwise, it's just DM versus player.

 

[Jdvn1]

Put a similar sort of Fighter in front of him--and give him feats like Improved Sunder or Improved Disarm?

Edit: Oh, Mark mentioned this already.

Well, also remember that even spells like Entangle can hamper movement, making a PC less effective. Lots of spells have effects that trigger even if you save.

 

[Veril]

Forcecage - really need disintigrate to get out of that. Put him in there with 1 monster (10' cube) and all he can do is melee the monster.

Otto's Irrisistable Dance (1D4+1 rounds/level) - no save.

Maze - needs DC20 Int check to exit (he might get lucky and get out after 1 round, but probably not) - no save.

Bigbys Crushing Hand - assume on a scroll by a 20th level caster. Grapple bonus +36. That should be enough to completly neutralise a paladin.

Teleportation Circle - have it set to TP the paladin to an inconvenient place - say a nice dungeon room but a big monster in it. It's dismissable, so the wizard can have a held action to dismiss it.

 

[Endur]

"Help me, Obi Wan Kenobi, Your my only hope.!"

Give the Paladin a damsel in distress to rescue while the rest of the party fights the specific combat.

You could even make it a magical summoning to pull him away from the party before or during the combat.

Or distract him with a beautiful nymph.

OK, I'm running a pretty high powered gestalt campaign, and I want to marginalize a paladin (lev 12) in one specific combat - I want him too busy to do much, but not killed.

 

[Victim]

Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Exhaustion (and the higher level Waves spells for AoE action) and Enervation are no save rays that weaken the paladin. Enervation even drops his saves some, allowing other spells a chance to land. All of the spells reduce his offense and grapple checks.

Forcecage = penalty box.

Even strong fighter types can have grapple trouble against large or bigger creatures. Since the Bigby spells' grapple includes size, STR, caster level, and caster stat mod, it rapidly outstrips a paladin's grapple check. Summoned monsters like Elementals should also do a decent job grappling.

You could also just dogpile the paladin with tons of fast guys. He'll be chopping up the diversions pretty well, but he probably won't moving away.