Handicapped by lack of Power Points?

[KarinsDad]

Soulknives cannot expend PP at all so it's more like Apples and Tables.

I also think they're fairly clear and support irdeggman's initial response. How does a Soulknife power the mindblade? The answer is the Wild Talent class feature (bonus feat). Wild Talent provides two things: conferring the status of "psionic character" and granting a reserve of 2 power points. Which of these is necessary for the mindblade? Look at the remaining description of the class feature: "...if he has no power points otherwise." In other words, this clearly states (IMO) that if the character did have power points otherwise (multiclass), then the primary purpose of the class feature (i.e. to provide "the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade") would be irrelevant.

The Wild Talent class feature supplies the power. The PP do not supply the power.

Does the Soulblade still have the Wild Talent class feature when he is out of PP? Yes. Hence, he still meets the prerequisite for powering the Mindblade.

Wild Talent: A soulknife gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat. (This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.)

The rest of the sentence does not explictly state that power points provide the power, that's an inference.


In fact, turn the sentence around, but do not change a single word:

"If he has no power points otherwise, this class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade."

Hence, the original poster's question: If he is out of PP, then Wild Talent provides the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade.

This sentence explicitly states how his mind blade is powered without PP.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Sure they can:...

Missed that, thanks.

Incidentally, I'm the player for whom this will matter.

What's in it for irdeggman and me? Maybe we'd happily change our minds on this one...

The rest of the sentence does not explictly state that power points provide the power, that's an inference.

Of course it's an inference, but an important and necessary one. All rules interpretations are inferences. Your entire viewpoint is an inference. So, I have no idea why you keep saying it's an inference, like that's an attempt to discredit our interpretation.

In fact, turn the sentence around, but do not change a single word

No, in fact, don't do any such thing and don't ignore the remainder of the sentence that you didn't bold. My interpretation and reading of the class feature takes the whole text into account. Your inference, however, does not. You explicitly ignore part of it. The otherwise is a key word. It implies strongly that the power points granted by the bonus feat granted by the class feature are strictly necessary to power the mindblade.

Does the Soulblade still have the Wild Talent class feature when he is out of PP? Yes. Hence, he still meets the prerequisite for powering the Mindblade.

This is by far your best argument. This is the one that if the DM wants to allow it, he should adopt. The fact is that I really don't think it's a problem to let the mindblade work with 0pp, so if this inference allows it, then I say go for it.

 

[Nareau]

What's in it for irdeggman and me? Maybe we'd happily change our minds on this one...

I'll buy you a beer the next time I see you.

I don't think this is a game-breaker. I'm leaning towards saying that the Soulknife can create his Mindblade with no PP left.

I hate this passage:

Wild Talent: A soulknife gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat. (This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.)

It seems to suggest that if the SLK had power points otherwise, he wouldn't need this class feature. Further, it suggests that power points are needed to create the blade. But that's not supported anywhere else.

In the case of the deep-crystal-weilding-soulknife, I could argue:
1) After spending my power points on the deep crystal sword, my SLK has no power points.
2) In order to create the mind blade (according to the passage above), I need "psionic power".
3) The class feature "Wild Talent" provides me with this "psionic power" if I don't have any power points (again, according to the passage above).

I wish they had clarified this. It would have been very easy to say,

Wild Talent: A soulknife gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat. (This class feature provides the character with the psionic ability he needs to materialize his mind blade.

Or, conversely,

Mind Blade (Su): As a move action, a soulknife can create a semisolid blade composed of psychic energy distilled from his own mind. He must have at least one power point in reserve to accomplish this.

Spider

 

[Pielorinho]

Moderator's Notes:

This whole database crash could be a blessing in disguise, allowing us to start a new millennium (workwith me here) free of rancor in the Rules forum. Please let my dream come true!

Daniel

 

[Infiniti2000]

Let me state for the record that KD is absolutely 100% right on this one. In no way, shape, or form can it be construed that a soulknife actually needs active PP to use the mindblade.

PS. I like Newcastle Brown Ale.

 

[KarinsDad]

No, in fact, don't do any such thing and don't ignore the remainder of the sentence that you didn't bold. My interpretation and reading of the class feature takes the whole text into account. Your inference, however, does not.

Actually, I am not ignoring the remainder of the sentence. I am merely interpreting it differently from you. The entire sentence states "This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise."

One interpretation of the bolded phrase here could be that PP are used to power it unless you have no PP, in which case Wild Talent powers it. I do not proscribe to that interpretation, but someone could make it.

My interpretation of the sentence is that Wild Talent supplies the power if the Soulknife has no PP.

You explicitly ignore part of it. The otherwise is a key word. It implies strongly that the power points granted by the bonus feat granted by the class feature are strictly necessary to power the mindblade.

Actually, the word "otherwise" implies no such thing.

The word "otherwise" could be used to indicate "outside of the Wild Talent" ability. But, that does not say anything about whether PP are required or not.

And your own words 'implies strongly" means that this phrase does not explicitly state that PP (and only PP) are required. That is an inference you are making, but it does not state that.


Some rules are spelled out. Your interpretation here is not, otherwise, we would not be discussing it.


This sentence is not enough for everyone to interpret it your way. Additionally, every other time PP are required, the book explicitly states so. Why would this be an exception?

Hence, there are several things here:

1) Your interpretation requires a non-stated specific inference of this sentence.

2) Your interpretation indicates that some power which drains PP would take away this class ability when there are no such examples in the book. For example, Power Leech would be the ultimate anti-Soulknife power, much more powerful than Ego Whip is against Sorcerers.

3) Your interpretation has different rules for other psi-like abilities than this one.

4) Your interpretation is not fun for the player.

5) Your interpretation is not balanced. It is rare in the game for a character to lose a major class ability so easily, especially when the rules themselves do not explicitly state that it happens.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Some rules are spelled out. Your interpretation here is not, otherwise, we would not be discussing it.

I almost choked on my Kit Kat reading that.

 

[KarinsDad]

I almost choked on my Kit Kat reading that.

Good thing you were not drinking a Coke. Otherwise, you might still be cleaning it out of your keyboard and off your monitor.

 

[Piratecat]

Moderator's Notes:

This whole database crash could be a blessing in disguise, allowing us to start a new millennium (workwith me here) free of rancor. . .

 

[Pielorinho]

Story of my life, that is.

Daniel