Handicapped by lack of Power Points?

[irdeggman]

The Wild Talent class feature supplies the power. The PP do not supply the power.

Does the Soulblade still have the Wild Talent class feature when he is out of PP? Yes. Hence, he still meets the prerequisite for powering the Mindblade.

Well if he is a Kalashtar soulknife with the 1st racial substitution level (see above) he does not have the Wild Talent feat. He will have 1 pp/character level though.

That was why I asked people about "other" psionic race substitution levels to see how thngs mesh.

However, I do not think it is that big a deal and don't see a real problem with allowing a SK to manifest his mindblade with 0 pp. But either ruling is really filling in gaps that the rules don't adequately address.

 

[DanMcS]

KD is correct on where I made my interence on soulknives and mindblades. The rules on whether or not they need any pp in order to manifest it or not are not clear.

They're not explicit, but they are clear, I think. It doesn't say you need points in your psionic pool to create a soulblade, so you don't. It says he needs "psionic power to materialize his mind blade", not psionic power points; I think it's flavor text, at that point, honestly.

There have been powers and abilities that worked like that in the past (3.0 inertial armor, for instance, was a feat that only provided an armor bonus as long as you had at least 1 power point in your pool), and they were always very explicit about it. The exception proves the rule in this case, I think: if it doesn't say explicitly that you need power points to use an ability, you don't.

 

[irdeggman]

They're not explicit, but they are clear, I think. It doesn't say you need points in your psionic pool to create a soulblade, so you don't. It says he needs "psionic power to materialize his mind blade", not psionic power points; I think it's flavor text, at that point, honestly.

There have been powers and abilities that worked like that in the past (3.0 inertial armor, for instance, was a feat that only provided an armor bonus as long as you had at least 1 power point in your pool), and they were always very explicit about it. The exception proves the rule in this case, I think: if it doesn't say explicitly that you need power points to use an ability, you don't.

Could be.

It could also be the last part of the text.

(This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.)

It does say "no" power points, not a pp pool.

But this is the class that has had the least attention from WotC overall so anything is possible. I would tend to side on what is most advantageous for the players, until (or if) they start abusing things.

But Dan, I think your explanation is the "best" one. It obviously doesn't require the Wild Talent feat in order to manifest a mindblade. It does require pp pool of some kind, but it doesn't state there has to be any pp in the pool.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

Another thing to consider is that if a soulknife with zero power points couldn't create a mind blade, the class would be very vulnerable to psionic vampire and other affects that drain power points, in a way that I don't think the designers intended.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As a hypothetical scenario:

The Stoneblessed PrC in Races of Stone allows someone of the Giant, Humanoid, or Monstrous Humanoid types to for a 'bond' to one of the three 'stone' races - dwarf, gnome, or goliath. One of its abilities states that "For all effects related to race, a stoneblessed is considered a member of the race to which she is bonded" and "The stoneblessed meets any racial prerequisites for feats and prestige classes as if she were a member of her bonded race".

Could a dwarf-bonded stoneblessed take Dwarven Substitution levels?

If so, let us hypothesise a PrC that allows an equivalent bond to the Kalashtar race. Let's say a Kalashtar-bonded human with no power pool takes the Kalashtar Soulblade substitution level.

Can this Soulblade manifest a Mindblade?

-Hyp.

 

[FireLance]

If so, let us hypothesise a PrC that allows an equivalent bond to the Kalashtar race. Let's say a Kalashtar-bonded human with no power pool takes the Kalashtar Soulblade substitution level.

Can this Soulblade manifest a Mindblade?

I'll bite.

Assuming the Kalashtar-bonded human had no other pool of PP, I'd say no.

However, it would be a very poor Kalashtar-bonded PrC if it didn't either require the character who took it to already have a PP pool, or give the character who took it a PP pool, from the Wild Talent feat or otherwise.

 

[Bront]

Let's look at wild talent

Wild Talent [General]
Your mind wakes to a previously unrealized talent for psionics.

Benefit
Your latent power of psionics flares to life, conferring upon you the designation of a psionic character. As a psionic character, you gain a reserve of 2 power points and can take psionic feats, metapsionic feats, and psionic item creation feats. You do not, however, gain the ability to manifest powers simply by virtue of having this feat.

The bolding is mine

Part of the Benifit of Wild Talent is to allow the character to take psionic feats. You can use any psionic feat without PPs unless it needs them for some other purpose (Psionic Body being the easiest example). You don't loose the Psionic Body feat if you run out of PPs, nor any other psionic feats, because you don't loose the psionic talent, just the reserve to power them.

Now, if we look at the Mind Blade as a Psionic Feat that simply requires that you are psionic in some way (Wild Talent gives any non-naturaly psionic race this ability), then your PP doesn't matter.

 

[irdeggman]

As a hypothetical scenario:
If so, let us hypothesise a PrC that allows an equivalent bond to the Kalashtar race. Let's say a Kalashtar-bonded human with no power pool takes the Kalashtar Soulblade substitution level.

Can this Soulblade manifest a Mindblade?

-Hyp.

Interesting hypothesis, but parts are missing. The Stoneblessed PrCl also grants certain "racial" benefits "in addition" to the one you mentioned. One is the skills stuff and the other is the ability things , like stonecunning for dwarves. If there was one of these for Kalashtar it would therefor logically include the abilites that make them a psionic race - or at least logic would dictate that it should.

Kalashtar are also "unique" in that they are a dual spirit race. Formed by the merging of a Quari spirit and a human "host". The "race" are the decendents of the original hosts and have developed as such. It is that dual spirit issue that complicates things a lot for this hypothesis, IMO.

It is possible to "create" new dual sprited creatures - that is what the "Inspired" are about.

IIRC Complete Psionic started using the term psionic subtype for psionic races (and thus those with Wild Talent feat). This might actually be the way this issue is evolving. In order to manifest a mindblade a character has to have the psionic subtype. Now there are creatures with the no pp who would be psionic subtype due to psi like abilities, but this might be the way the issue eventually gets resolved. That is if WotC ever spends any real quality time on the class itself.

 

[Bront]

Interesting hypothesis, but parts are missing. The Stoneblessed PrCl also grants certain "racial" benefits "in addition" to the one you mentioned. One is the skills stuff and the other is the ability things , like stonecunning for dwarves. If there was one of these for Kalashtar it would therefor logically include the abilites that make them a psionic race - or at least logic would dictate that it should.

Or, potentialy even require the Wild Talent or PPs to enter in the first place.

Good point