Harassment in gaming

[Nylanfs]

So you have NO control over your actions?

 

[random.brown]

So you have NO control over your actions?

I know, right? Who would dare accuse a woman of being so out of control of herself and her environment that she couldn't simply tell some aping buffoon that her "eyes are up here?"

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Clearly, we need another dose of monolith.

 

[Jeremy E Grenemyer]

Men and women have equal rights in all western societies.

No, they don't.

We're getting there. But we're not there yet.

Is this your reasoning for why someone staring at a woman for seven seconds or so is not harassment? Because the law says so?

Only a sexist would think that a woman at a game store on the receiving end of a cat-call would be helpless to do anything about it without the intervention of some other authority.

Nobody said that all women are incapable of dealing with cat calls without resorting to asking for help.

That's not the crux of what's being discussed here. (Again, it would help if you'd read the thread, and the various links.)

In terms of sexism, I hope you'll agree it would be sexist to say that cat calls are just part of life in gaming, just as it would be sexist to say it's a woman's job to deal with things like cat calls, no matter her age.

After all, the men in the vicinity--as well as the boys who hope to grow up to be men worthy of the term--should be putting their fellow in place before the woman gets a word in edgewise, even if they don't know the guy.

But that's not what's happening. Enough so that people are speaking out.

And because it's not happening, women feel powerless, isolated and alone.

Why? Because if the men in the room didn't do anything when the cat calls took place, how does it follow they'll back her up if she stands up for herself, much less that they'll have her back if she's not comfortable with confrontation and asks for help?

 

[Obryn]

I know, right? Who would dare accuse a woman of being so out of control of herself and her environment that she couldn't simply tell some aping buffoon that her "eyes are up here?"

Why's it her job to do this instead of the dude just, you know, not staring at her boobs to begin with?

Is that crazy? It doesn't seem crazy? What seems crazy is an argument along the lines of, "It's totally more respectful to stare at women and make them uncomfortable because otherwise you're not giving them a chance to tell you to cut it out."

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

It isn't a binary thing; both options can coexist. Ideally, a woman would be able to tell a man off...and a man could control himself so she wouldn't have to.

But we don't live in an ideal world. So if for those women unable or unwilling to defend themselves- whatever the reason, be it youth, hypermodesty, being under a vow of silence, whatever- perhaps some of the more evolved among us can step up?

 

[Obryn]

It isn't a binary thing; both options can coexist. Ideally, a woman would be able to tell a man off...and a man could control himself so she wouldn't have to.

But we don't live in an ideal world. So if for those women unable or unwilling to defend themselves- whatever the reason, be it youth, hypermodesty, being under a vow of silence, whatever- perhaps some of the more evolved among us can step up?

There's still a heavy element of... Victim blaming, I suppose, to this whole ridiculous "wilting flower" argument. And it's not the first time it's come up in these threads.

Yes, many/most/whatever women are totally capable of handling themselves against a harasser. That doesn't excuse being a jackass, and places the responsibility for resolution straight on the victim rather than on the offender.

It's downright insulting, couched in the language of respect the way it is. "I only punched you because I knew you could take it and I know you're not a wuss. Oh, it hurts? Toughen up, cupcake!"

 

[Sadras]

A High Court judge overseeing a rape case once said in his judgement "Had Rudyard Kipling known of this case at the time he wrote his poem If, he might have added the following: ‘And if you can control your body and your sexual urges, then you are a man, my son’.”

 

[Eltab]

OP:
Just before I took over as DM for my HotDQ/Tiamat group, one of the players had to create a new character. The DM placed her as a spy aboard the flying castle, trying to seduce Rezmir into talking secrets in her sleep. (From which I concluded, falsely, that the new character was a member of the Harpers and trying to emulate James Bond.) Then we found out Rezmir is also female. What ensued was NOT hilarity. To inflame the situation, IRL the player in question is Mom to another player and Aunt to the primary motor-mouth. I realized that family dynamics were in play as well, but nobody else at table was enjoying the double-entendres. The Mom player was visibly raising her hackles.

The next week, the motor-mouth came in early and I - with my DM hat on - had a talk with him. He agreed to knock off the baloney (at-table, anyways, I have no idea what they did at home) and edit his character traits so the problem would not keep coming up. When Mom and Son came in, I pulled Mom aside and let her know what had been discussed. I also told her that _I_ was not comfortable with the double-entendres (disrespectful to her as a person, and uncomfortable as Mom in front of Son). She claimed to be OK with what had happened and she was a big girl and could take care of herself.

Long story short: the disruption stopped, and the most disruptive character/player changed noticeably into a source of teamwork rather than friction.

 

[Eltab]

...There is no epidemic, no conspiracy, no systemic, continued unwanted actions towards women...

We have to figure out how to separate (1) women who have a legit complaint about a man's behavior from (2) women who get the vapors at the slightest trigger.
This cannot be done accurately from a distance, in space or in time - definitely not from the other end of an Internet connection.

And the real folly here? Raising young boys up to be Gentlemen is called 'oppression' and all sorts of vile insulting names.
Yet all the troublesome conduct described upthread IS 'conduct unbecoming of a gentleman.'