Harm/Slay Living FIX?

[AirElemental]

Ok, So what do you think of this for a fix to our harm/Slay living problem?

Move Heal and Harm to 5th level, give them a Will save, 4d6 damage on a successful save.
Move Slay Living to 6th level, and instead of damage on a successful save, it does 1d12 con damage
Finger of Death, is fine where its at. However, I would submit the following: If you make your save, you take 3d6 +1/level damage, and 1d12 con damage.
Unbalancing?
Like it?

 

[comrade raoul]

Hmm....

I've found Heal to be a perfectly good sixth level spell; after all, it's very powerful in its current state.

1d12 con damage, no save, is very powerful -- even for a 6th level spell.

It seems to me that, after a long time of hearing a number of Harm fixes (and suggesting some myself) that the best option is simply to rule 0 the spell out of the game. I think Harm is both broken and unfixable. And clerics are already very powerful characters with a good spell list -- they don't need a mega-potent offensive spell on top of everything else. I don't think the game would be any poorer without Harm in it.

 

[bwgwl]

hmmm. i agree that something needs to be done to harm, but having a flat damage amount on a succesful save could lead to weird results.

like say i have only 12 hit points left. if i fail my save, i am left with 1-4 hit points, but if i succeed, i take 4d6 damage, leaving my with anywhere from 8 down to -12 hit points! a failed save can't kill me, but a success can? better hope i fail!

maybe say 4d6 damage, can't reduce hit points below 4? kinda wordy, though.

maybe comrade raoul is right, the game might be better off without the spell...

 

[trentonjoe]

What's wrong with giving Harm a Fort save? That's what I do. Very simple.

I don't think there is anything wrong with slay living.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Personally, I don't see a big deal with Slay Living. Requires a touch attack, Fort save. The people with the low fort saves are not going to be running up to the clerics now are they?

Harm, on the other hand, I agree needs some kind of fix. IMC, I've modified it to fit in line with the other Inflict spells. All the inflict spells have a Will save for half damage, I let Harm have a Will save for half of current hitpoints (instead of 1d4). It is still a powerful spell, but there you have it.

Later!

 

[twjensen]

Proposed fix

I was thinking about harm/heal dealing/healing 1d8 HP per caster level, up to a max of 20d8, no save, but touch attack is required. (not that many people will try to dodge a heal spell. )

 

[CRGreathouse]

Re: Proposed fix

I was thinking about harm/heal dealing/healing 1d8 HP per caster level, up to a max of 20d8, no save, but touch attack is required. (not that many people will try to dodge a heal spell. )

That's basically what I do, though I limit it such that it reduces the target to no fewer than 5 hit points. Will save, I assume?

 

[Al]

I House Ruled that Harm has a Will save (why Will? Because all the other Inflict X Wounds spells use this save) for 4d8+level damage. It suffers from the strange problem that was outlined, but then so do many spells like Slay Living, Disintegrate and the like- i.e. even if I save, I may die from the damage.

Slay Living is fine at 5th. Phantasmal Killer is a two-save or die at 4th level, and has better range and no need for touch attack. Also, compare Slay Living with Feeblemind, Dominate Person and other upper power 5th level spells: it seems in line. Bumping it to 6th is weak when compared to e.g.s Flesh to Stone and Disintegrate.

I've never had a problem with Heal. It's powerful, and too powerful for 5th level, but not as strong as most 7th level spells. 6th is the correct level IMHO.

 

[Geoff Watson]

IMC I give Harm a save for half damage. It's still really good against really tough opponents, but it's not an instant win if they save.

The same applies for Heal vs undead, etc.

Geoff.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The best fix for harm (I would use it if I ever start a D&D campaign at DM) is allowing a Will Save for "half hit point loss".
That same applies for heal against undead creaturues.

For Slay Living and Phantasmal Killer, I will see. I will have to look in the PHB for the effects if I will change something there...

Mustrum Ridcully