Harmless Spells
- Thread starter Matafuego
- Start date
Wow.
Lots of different responses.
First I'll like to clarify something up:
I know how harmless "by the rules" works (or at least I think I do!). Otherwise I'd posted this on the rules section. The idea of this was to expand on the "how" does it work.
The character can "elect" to make a saving throw, and if it's not harmless he can give the ST up.
But how does he differentiate one from other?
Is it, like someone proposed, that the immune system feels the harming damage and "clicks in" making a ST, that can be given up via consciousness?
Is there something "in the magic" that makes this?
Can someone be tricked into giving up his ST then?
Via bluffing?
Or via the spell, as in the spell does detect as harmless but isn't?
Because if the body "feels" the harming magic, no one will ever forego his ST being talked into it because his body will warn him of the damage.
How do you feel about this?
And about the issues i raised on my first post.
I wanted to see your opinions and ideas in this matter.
Be them good or bad
Lots of different responses.
First I'll like to clarify something up:
I know how harmless "by the rules" works (or at least I think I do!). Otherwise I'd posted this on the rules section. The idea of this was to expand on the "how" does it work.
The character can "elect" to make a saving throw, and if it's not harmless he can give the ST up.
But how does he differentiate one from other?
Is it, like someone proposed, that the immune system feels the harming damage and "clicks in" making a ST, that can be given up via consciousness?
Is there something "in the magic" that makes this?
Can someone be tricked into giving up his ST then?
Via bluffing?
Or via the spell, as in the spell does detect as harmless but isn't?
Because if the body "feels" the harming magic, no one will ever forego his ST being talked into it because his body will warn him of the damage.
How do you feel about this?
And about the issues i raised on my first post.
I wanted to see your opinions and ideas in this matter.
Be them good or bad
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
Here's how I envision it:
You make your saving throw as you begin to suffer the spell's effect. So when you save against Charm Person, you're beginning to be charmed, but then try to resist. When you save against Inflict Wounds, you're beginning to be harmed, but then you resist (maybe just blackening the skin). Similarly, when you save against Cure Wounds, you're aware that you feel better, but then you try to stop it.
Just like there's a host parries and ripostes that don't go documented in an attack roll, there's a host of feelings -- shock, nausea, warmth, tingling skin, quickening pulse, blurring eyesight -- that don't go documented in a saving throw.
Now, when subject to a harmful effect, your body tenses up and tries to resist it automatically, reactively, like taking your hand away from flame, or taking a breath...your body experiences the bad sensations, and wants to stop them. You have to tell your body to let it happen if you voluntarily fail your save.
When subject to a benficial effect, your body eases and tries to embrace it, automatically, instincteively, like warming to a hug or a lover's kiss...your body experiences the good sensations, and wants to have more of them. You have to tell your body to try and stop if you voluntarily make your save.
You make your saving throw as you begin to suffer the spell's effect. So when you save against Charm Person, you're beginning to be charmed, but then try to resist. When you save against Inflict Wounds, you're beginning to be harmed, but then you resist (maybe just blackening the skin). Similarly, when you save against Cure Wounds, you're aware that you feel better, but then you try to stop it.
Just like there's a host parries and ripostes that don't go documented in an attack roll, there's a host of feelings -- shock, nausea, warmth, tingling skin, quickening pulse, blurring eyesight -- that don't go documented in a saving throw.
Now, when subject to a harmful effect, your body tenses up and tries to resist it automatically, reactively, like taking your hand away from flame, or taking a breath...your body experiences the bad sensations, and wants to stop them. You have to tell your body to let it happen if you voluntarily fail your save.
When subject to a benficial effect, your body eases and tries to embrace it, automatically, instincteively, like warming to a hug or a lover's kiss...your body experiences the good sensations, and wants to have more of them. You have to tell your body to try and stop if you voluntarily make your save.
ThirdWizard
First Post
Here's a really bad analogy to how I see it happening in game.
There are three levels of the individual acceptance of spells (yeah, like we need more ways to use the word "level"). Usually you're on "Defcon 3." You can up this to "Defcon 1" and lower it to "Defcon 5." (lower from 3 to 5? This is 3E what am I saying??). "Harmless" spells get through the normal Defcon 3, because the natural defenses don't stop those spells. It has nothing to do with the character feeling anything at all. The spell by its very nature gets through this state of being.
Now, when the character wants, they can elect to go to "Defcon 1" or "Defcon 5" depending on what they desire at the moment, the decision made when the saving throw is permitted. So, if that enemy mage is casting a spell on you, and you don't know what it is, you can actively resist it. When a friendly mage is casting something on you and you trust them, you might lower your resistance to the effect.
But, its a function of the spell that it gets through, not any kind of reaction by the target at all, even subconcious, that will allow the spell to get through. That's how I see it anyway. It's magic.
The way I run it in game is "The spell being cast on you is Harmless. Do you try and resist it?"
There are three levels of the individual acceptance of spells (yeah, like we need more ways to use the word "level"). Usually you're on "Defcon 3." You can up this to "Defcon 1" and lower it to "Defcon 5." (lower from 3 to 5? This is 3E what am I saying??). "Harmless" spells get through the normal Defcon 3, because the natural defenses don't stop those spells. It has nothing to do with the character feeling anything at all. The spell by its very nature gets through this state of being.
Now, when the character wants, they can elect to go to "Defcon 1" or "Defcon 5" depending on what they desire at the moment, the decision made when the saving throw is permitted. So, if that enemy mage is casting a spell on you, and you don't know what it is, you can actively resist it. When a friendly mage is casting something on you and you trust them, you might lower your resistance to the effect.
But, its a function of the spell that it gets through, not any kind of reaction by the target at all, even subconcious, that will allow the spell to get through. That's how I see it anyway. It's magic.
The way I run it in game is "The spell being cast on you is Harmless. Do you try and resist it?"
TheAuldGrump
First Post
Staffan said:
Except that the default is that an unconcious character does not get a save vs. harmless spells...
The Auld Grump
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