Harniacs vs. d20/D&D players

[Falstaff]

Kaptain, give my apologies to the guys and gals over at Harn Forum.

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

Aw, shucks.

Actually, those that have read your later comments here (and posted their thoughts on them at Harn Forum) have pretty much already forgiven you from what I can tell. Shocking, isn't it?

Now Patrick, on the other hand... he might take some more convincing.

 

[Patrick-S&S]

Re: Wrong, wrong, wrong!

Unfortunately, they are often the most vocal of the lot. In fact, I'll probably get some ribbing and pestering for this post (I see you guys!) from them.

Not here you won't but when you return to the Hârn Forum... Oh yeah you can bet you will... I have called Nick, Hrafn and even some of your buddies. You are going down mister...

To help a few people here... d20 can be used in Hârn with a little tweakin and there are some pretty good guides out there. It may not be for everyone but at least it offers an alternative to Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms and other settings usually connected to D&D. Taste it away if you may...

 

[Patrick-S&S]

Now Patrick, on the other hand... he might take some more convincing. [/B]

Yeah I might... Then again I might not. It all has to do with behaviours. Act accordingly to the rules of being polite and even I will grow soft. It does not happen often but now and then there is this miracle called leniency... Well I am off to the Hârn Forum again to spread some malice. See you there Shane...

 

[Alejandro]

Sorry, but sounds boring. I can be broke and powerless in real life, I don't need a game for that. Stick to closely to 12th century Europe and all the game will be is trudging through mud until you get sick and die. And if there is magic and monsters in it, there have better be some dang good reasons that it stays like 12th century Europe

That's just me, though.

People fear the unknown. Peasants fear wizards. I played in a Harn campaign where the wizards (shek pvar) majorly screwed up and caused the inadvertant genocide of an entire subject race (Jarin). Sure, we were broke and powerless, but we also had a ton of fun ridiculing and beating down our stupid wizards.

 

[Desdichado]

Dark, "grim and gritty" fantasy is quite popular (George RR Martin, anyone?) and it at time seems to be especially so here, where a number of threads come up every few monthes or so on how to limit power escalation and the like.

I still say I don't want another system, though. And I don't really need another campaign setting either, because homebrewing is at least as much fun for me as playing is.

 

[Ristamar]

LOL. Have you read Harn? It covers tectonic plate movements, ocean currents, prevailing wind patterns, etc. And every village has every unimportant peasant detailed out! Plus, there are lullabies, oaths, curses, prayers, songs, commerce and transaction guides, the inner workings of guilds, ale and bread recipes, beekeeping lore, and all manner of detail in just about every mundane subject. Now that's a level of detail unseen in any other game!

Just out of curiosity, why is this so special? If a DM has the time and inclination and isn't put off by doing a little research, he can add those details and more to his own D&D campaign (the task becomes less formidable with the assistance of players). It's not like Harn has exclusive rights to minute and extraneous details. Any capable publisher can release a d20 setting with such details if they're willing and they think it'll sell.

If you want to show how Harn differentiates from D&D and other RPG's, tell me about the mechanics, the core of the system, how tasks are resolved, etc. and how this all meshes with the setting to create an enjoyable experience. Simply saying over and over that it is extremely detailed and/or realistic fantasy (isn't that a bit of an oxymoron?) generally only garners a response of "big frickin' deal" from me, since it's merely a piece of the overall package.

 

[Harlock]

Well, I was going to beg a mod to close the thread, but the flames are dying down. Thanks to all involved for playing nice(r). What I never get is when people complain about d20 not being realistic or not having this or that or HP being wrong or Rangers getting the shaft, whatever. The beauty of D20 and D&D is that you can make it whatever you want. The rules state this unequivocally. Sure it takes some work, and maybe Harn is exactly what you would have made yourself (plate tectonics included!) but to fault a game for not having something or not liking something you CAN change just seems pointless. I don't like FR as it stands, so I just steal what I like, rename it, work it into my campaign and voila! But, I guess it's a lot easier to sit on your butt and type nasty posts than it is to engage your brain a little to make a system work for you instead of vice versa. Versatility IS the beauty of D20. Enjoy your games, folks, I certainly will enjoy mine.

 

[TruffleGrubber]

Hrmmm

Shadow of Burkai's chronicle of events concerning Falstaff vs Harn Forum is pretty much how I saw them unfold. I attempted to mediate a bit and too late, not that I think it would have mattered anyway.

Falstaff, no forgivness needed from me, despite my quite abrasive final email, I don't hold grudges. You are who you are and you should know by this point in your life that you are not going to fit in with every crowd. That doesn't bother me one bit, it's your problem not mine. Similarly I don't really fit in here at EnWorld, so I don't post here much- except to crawl out of the cracks when Harn comes up, though I do lurk a bit now and then.

Now on to Harn and Harnmaster...

I love the Harn setting and Harnmaster. I generally convert those that players that play in my games. The one mentality I have a hard time getting past is the 'Turnip Farming' mentality that has been presented here. Do I run games where the players are concered with nothing but their crops and the gout? No. And I think it is safe to say that 95%+ of the gamemasters for Harn don't either. The fact that the detail is there to allow you to consider such details only deepens your sense of the world and I do consider such mechanics when detailing a manor for the game. It's just a different style of Fantasy Roleplaying. The closest comparison I can come to in feel would be to say that D&D3e is to Harn as D&D2e was to Call of Cthulu. A matter of tastes and I respect the fact that people don't want to play low fantasy. What annoys me is that the negative response you get for Harn is consistently 'Let's Play Farmers!' or 'Why would I want to play a broke, slovenly, my life sucks peasant?'. And Mr. Becker if you are here and reading this and even dare to goad me I'll pee in you Pho next time I see you in Huang!

 

[Numion]

Re: Hrmmm

A matter of tastes and I respect the fact that people don't want to play low fantasy. What annoys me is that the negative response you get for Harn is consistently 'Let's Play Farmers!' or 'Why would I want to play a broke, slovenly, my life sucks peasant?'.

I know that the farmer comment was a cheap shot, and I still said it. It's just that KK went on a tirade about Harns realistic micro-details, which isn't a bad thing by itself. It's nice always to learn about other systems finer points. What I do have beef with is that then he went on explaining that this detail (or 'realism', what the hell that is.) makes Harn a more intelligent game, for more intelligent gamers, as himself (implied).

Intelligence is always a sore point for us humans. So don't call my games any 'cheaper' or less intelligent, and I won't bitch about farming Harnians, ok?

(And why yes, I consider myself of above average intelligence. Like all of us )