Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince point of discussion (Spoilers)

[Endur]

I think it looked staged because, well, it was staged. For Harry and/or Draco's benefit, if nothing else. I think Dumbledore and Snape both knew what parts they had to play and did so - although judging by the argument Harry earlier overheard between the two of them, Snape might have needed a lot of persuasion.

As for me, I believe
A) Dumbledore's dead. No one survives the killing curse (except the 'boy who lived', of course). And,

B) Snape is very deep cover, but still working for the good guys. The whole chapter at the beginning of the book where he's scheming with Bellatrix and Narcissa? Too much of a plot giveaway if Snape were telling the truth.

This is my interpretation as well. Dumbledore told Snape to kill him.

Now whether this is Gandalf the Grey or Obi-Wan Kenobi, that I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan could not kill Vader (because he raised Vader), so he arranged to die to give Luke the motivation to grow to defeat Vader & the Emperor

 

[Bront]

Well, as I said, Dumbledore arranged for his death could be the other option, I just wanted to explore if he's alive. I do think Snape is undercover still though.

This is easy to ingone as she's just not that good of writer so I think its a writing problem and not a planned thing.

I disagree. The ammount of planning and working in past points is very good writing. Her style is a bit simplistic, but the books have been aimed at a younger audience, so I don't fault her for that.

 

[wingsandsword]

Well, remember that right before that scene, Dumbledore is explaining to Draco that he could perfectly fake someones death, make it so that everybody would believe they are dead and nobody could tell otherwise. That sounds like it could be a bit of foreshadowing.

Remember, when the killing curse is normally used, the victim just falls down dead, end of story. Dumbledore went flying off the castle with a flourish. Also, if somebody speaks the words of the curse without the hatred to back it up, nothing happens, and the book also set up the concept of silent spells and Snape was proficient with them.

There is all that Phoenix imagery about Dumbledore, she hammers it in pretty hard too.

It seemed to me like the book was laying the foundation for one heck of a show for Harry. Snape and Dumbledore collaborate to put on the ultimate death scene, where Dumbledore fakes his own death, Snape makes it look like he's using the death curse but actually casts something else, and Dumbledore goes into hiding.

Now Harry has seen his mentor cut down by Snape, and Harry's already deep drive to defeat Voldemort and his minions is even stronger. Dumbledore may well have realized that the best thing he could do at the time would be to drive Harry on even further and giving Snape ultimate crediblity since he was the one who apparently killed Dumbledore, by arranging for an incredible show. Dumbledore lays low for a while, staying out of sight to keep them motivated, but ready to reappear at the right moment when he'll be needed.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I'm pretty sure that the reason Dumbledore trusted Snape so much was they had an Unbreakable Vow between them. I think Snape was still acting according to plan when he "killed" Dumbledore. Dumbledore is probably not dead. Snape was still teaching Harry when he defeated him out at the edges of the school, telling him he would have to learn to shut his mouth and his mind if he was going to duel Voldemort.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Dumbledore is probably not dead. Would go against story telling tradition and JK Rowling tends to follow story telling tradition.
Also I don't like the idea of Snape being evil. He's not a nice person and an anti hero but I don't think he'd actually kill Dumbledore unless it was for the greater good.

I doubt that Snape can cast the killing cure without verbalizing it. The spell slot modifier for silent spell is +1 and the killing curse is at least a level 7 spell Snape probably isn't high enough level

 

[Taelorn76]

I am of the mind that Dumbledore is dead, no coming back. What makes me say that is that his portrait came up in the headmasters quarters.

Snape I beleive killed Dumbledore under his orders, he had to be sacrificed for the greater good. Now the Order has a plant deep in Vold's deatheaters. And most of them will take what he did at face value, not thinking to look below the surface.

My concern is I think Harry is to dimwitted to puzzle this out. He lets his emotions get the better of him, and rule his actions. Only after taking down Snape will he realize what was going on.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I doubt that Snape can cast the killing cure without verbalizing it. The spell slot modifier for silent spell is +1 and the killing curse is at least a level 7 spell Snape probably isn't high enough level

Well, the idea is that Snape subvocalized a "throw Dumbledore" spell, while yelling out the Killing Curse. Not sure of wand movements though...

 

[Taelorn76]

I don't have a copy of book 4 at hand, but when the curse was used at the end was the character thrown back. IIRC in the movie he was thrown back when he was hit with the curse. If Dumblecore was close enough to the edge he could have been thrown off as well.

*Being a little cryptic in case some have not read or seen book 4.

 

[erian_7]

Just to get the theory out--Snape became a deatheater because he loved Potter's mom and wanted the power to take her. He left the deatheaters when Voldemort killed the woman he loved, thus Dumbledore always saying love is more powerful than Dark Magic.


As for Dumbldore being dead, maybe and maybe not but either way it was planned by him and Snape to further the OotP's end game of taking down Voldemort--Snape is still a "good" guy.

No proof for any of it, just a hunch...

 

[billd91]

I am of the mind that Dumbledore is dead, no coming back. What makes me say that is that his portrait came up in the headmasters quarters.

Snape I beleive killed Dumbledore under his orders, he had to be sacrificed for the greater good. Now the Order has a plant deep in Vold's deatheaters. And most of them will take what he did at face value, not thinking to look below the surface.

My concern is I think Harry is to dimwitted to puzzle this out. He lets his emotions get the better of him, and rule his actions. Only after taking down Snape will he realize what was going on.

I suspect that Snape was acting under orders from Dumbledore to do what he had to do to protect Malfoy (from himself, ultimately, as well as Voldemort) and follow through with the unbreakable vow he made with Narcissa (which I'm pretty certain he made without knowing the purpose of Malfoy's task). I believe Snape did this, however, quite reluctantly which is why they argued as was reported to Harry.

But I also believe that nobody in the Order has any idea of this. Members who otherwise would have known seemed quite shocked. Snape is so deeply in that only he knows about it. I can't imagine anyone in the Order believing this would be an appropriate trade - Dumbledore for an unimpeachable Snape (as far as Death Eaters are concerned) and Malfoy's soul. It's likely only Dumbledore would have been comfortable with that decision.

Harry isn't dimwitted. He's impulsive and he still has plenty of reason to hate Snape, regardless of the reasons Snape has done some of the things he's done. And even if someone (likely Hermione) figures out what's going on with Snape, I don't think Harry would be likely to care. And I wouldn't think he was wrong.

I believe something is going to happen with Malfoy. He'll turn traitor on Voldemort for some reason. I've been convinced of this since the 2nd movie came out on DVD. The screenwriter was saying that some things have been revealed to him ahead of time by Rowling that have made their way into the movies. Sometimes it's a bit more told to the actors to get their parts down. Sometimes it's foreshadowing. In the 2nd movie, it might have been a cut scene on the DVD, they showed Malfoy being bullied by his old man. Perhaps it was just there to humanize the little bastard a little more, but I think it foreshadows something. And now that Dumbledore has been sacrificed to save Malfoy's soul, after he was having a hard time actually doing the deed, I think we'll see results.