Harry Potter & The Deathly Hallows - POTENTIAL SPOILERS

[Donovan Morningfire]

Like I said before, Book7 worked fine as a cap to the series, but as a stand alone book I think it was sub-par. Still good enough, but missing something.

I think from GoF onwards, Rowling wasn't writing them as individual books, but to be taken as part of the series, and was heavily linked to HBP, which was essentially ESB to DH's RotJ (just with centaurs instead of Ewoks).

That's the inherent problem with series, is that they rely on using prior installments as building blocks. If someone with no knowledge of the Potterverse were to pick up Deathly Hallows, they'd probably think it was a piece of utter garbage since they'd have no real way to determine the relevance of what's going on.

The first two Potter books could stand on their own merits, becuase I think at that point Rowling wasn't 100% certain she was going to be able to publish the entire thing. Kinda like how Lucas made ANH able to stand alone since he too wasn't sure if he was going to be able to make the rest of the films.

 

[Mistwell]

Was he afraid of revealing his position? Sure they gave him a morale boost, even if all they were doing was sending him to his death, but then he'd already accepted what had to be done, and adding an item to augment his own will in the process isn't exactly reinforcing the journey that Harry took, relying on props to win doesn't really add much.

Again though, there was no mastering the cloak, and the ring's "mastering" wasn't much of anything. No one else apparently even tried to use it. Only the Wand was given a real, direct method of determining mastery, the rest were never really called out.

I'm sorry my mistake...it wasn't an issue of giving away his position to early, it was an issue that Harry thinks in the book that he doesn't have the will to conjure a patronus at that moment I believe.

He doesn't fully accept what he has to do until the ghosts talk to him about death.

He did master the cloak, since Dumbledore says it was properly handed down to him, much as he will have to hand it down to another.

Dumbledore tried to use the ring, and it cost him his life. What do you mean nobody even tried to use it? He says only Harry was able to master the ring.

I guess I am going to have to pull the book out and start quoting. I am pretty sure Dumbledore spells all this stuff out, that only Harry had mastered all three items.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I'm sorry my mistake...it wasn't an issue of giving away his position to early, it was an issue that Harry thinks in the book that he doesn't have the will to conjure a patronus at that moment I believe.

Yeah, I remember he couldn't call the will up to call the patronus. This falls under using the stone as a crutch though, for me. It's like in Heroes, Hiro's constant gaining and losing confidence just wears thin for me after the 13th time.

He did master the cloak, since Dumbledore says it was properly handed down to him, much as he will have to hand it down to another.

I think it's just muddled terminology, the Wand was the only one that could be "mastered", and it had additional capabilities for the True Wielder. The cape worked the same for everyone who had it, and the ring didn't work for anyone because no one seemed to realize what it was.

Heck, I'm not sure why the Stone wasn't destroyed. Or, if it wasn't "destroyed", why it was no longer a Horcrux, but it's not important.

Dumbledore tried to use the ring, and it cost him his life. What do you mean nobody even tried to use it? He says only Harry was able to master the ring.

Dumbledore was hit with the curse, but AFAIK it was a protective curse to safeguard the Horcrux.

I guess I am going to have to pull the book out and start quoting. I am pretty sure Dumbledore spells all this stuff out, that only Harry had mastered all three items.

If you're bored, it passes the time.

 

[billd91]

I can see them as literary items to show his growth as a character, but then needing to rely on the stone to do what needed doing seems to diminish it somewhat...

But it also shows that he's even gone beyond Dumbledore's capacity in at least one way. It shows how exceptional Harry has become.

 

[Victim]

Given the origin story of the stone, I think Harry's mastery was that he could draw strength from the ability to contact the dead, instead of hurting himself in an attempt to bring back the past (dead lovers, a slain sister, etc) like other users of the Ressurection Stone.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Given the origin story of the stone, I think Harry's mastery was that he could draw strength from the ability to contact the dead, instead of hurting himself in an attempt to bring back the past (dead lovers, a slain sister, etc) like other users of the Ressurection Stone.

I think the problem with this and the post above, is that there was no mention really of other users of the stone. Dumbledore's use is undocumented, as it were. Did he fail to use it because of the curse on the Horcrux? If so, it doesn't really mean he failed. From what I recall of the conversation, Dumbledore speaks more of how he WOULD HAVE used it, had he used it...

 

[WarlockLord]

I didn't like the final battle. Harry dies. Harry goes to a train station, like in the Matrix. Long talk. Harry comes back. Voldy's curse rebounds again.

If Harry is so into Unforgivables, can't he just Avada Kedavra Voldemort? Voldemort falling for the same crap again is dumb. I know he doesn't understand love and all, but why not stop using killing curses (logic: they didn't work the first time, Harry really hasn't died. I know he 'died' when he went back to the Train Station, but he came back. Logically, this would seem to prove that Harry is immune to Avada Kedavra) and Petrify (according to CoS, there are spells that do this) or imprison under the earth...something.

And why, oh why are the zombies called Inferi?

And every internet theory turned out to be true! Yay! I didn't even need to buy the book!

And why the McGuffins? The Deathly Hallows (at first I thought this meant a fight in a church) could have easily referred to the Horcruxes. If Harry is the Chosen One (like Ash in the Pokemon movies...why did I ever watch them?), shouldn't he have heard about them before? And the Elder Wand is just TOO cliched McGuffinesque. An item of ultimate power? Please.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I didn't like the final battle. Harry dies. Harry goes to a train station, like in the Matrix. Long talk. Harry comes back. Voldy's curse rebounds again.

If Harry is so into Unforgivables, can't he just Avada Kedavra Voldemort? Voldemort falling for the same crap again is dumb. I know he doesn't understand love and all, but why not stop using killing curses (logic: they didn't work the first time, Harry really hasn't died. I know he 'died' when he went back to the Train Station, but he came back. Logically, this would seem to prove that Harry is immune to Avada Kedavra) and Petrify (according to CoS, there are spells that do this) or imprison under the earth...something.

Woah woah woah. Back up a step here. The Dark Lord was a ruthless powerful magician willing to split his soul into 7 parts for unspecified power.

When did he ever seem intelligent to you? I mean, that's like saying Dumbledore was a good headmaster, it's simply not true, and never evident, so stop with the assumptions!

And why, oh why are the zombies called Inferi?

Why did they make the killing curse sound like Abra Cadabra, did she not think there'd be a movie and ruin a dramatic moment, as Wormtail blasts Cedric to death, and the audience is waiting from him to pull a rabbit out of a hat?

And every internet theory turned out to be true! Yay! I didn't even need to buy the book!

Not every theory, my theory was a meteorite would come down and smash into Hogwarts right at the climactic battle, slaying all and leaving only the female students alive to found a new society of magical succubi preying on humanity.

And why the McGuffins? The Deathly Hallows (at first I thought this meant a fight in a church) could have easily referred to the Horcruxes. If Harry is the Chosen One (like Ash in the Pokemon movies...why did I ever watch them?), shouldn't he have heard about them before? And the Elder Wand is just TOO cliched McGuffinesque. An item of ultimate power? Please.

Because, though she's a good storyteller, Rowling is not the best writer/ plotter. Supposedly her followup book will be something entirely different, and I wonder if she's got the sorcerers stones to pull it off. Deathly Hallows was a long time coming, but has the feeling of something the author just had to get through to finish it out, rather than some grand story that needed a penultimate conclusion.

 

[xrpsuzi]

Yeah, I remember he couldn't call the will up to call the patronus. This falls under using the stone as a crutch though, for me. It's like in Heroes, Hiro's constant gaining and losing confidence just wears thin for me after the 13th time.

The only time Harry failed to produce a patronus was early in the book when he was wearing the locket. That was what prompted them to swtich off on locket duty. In the end, the book seemed to intimate that he (1)didn't want to give away his position as he approached the forest (2)wanted to talk to those who he had lost in the battle against Voltemort before he died. But I could believe that Harry might have difficulties summoning a patronus at that point because you have focus on a really happy memory/piece of you in order to summon a patronus.

I think it's just muddled terminology, the Wand was the only one that could be "mastered", and it had additional capabilities for the True Wielder. The cape worked the same for everyone who had it, and the ring didn't work for anyone because no one seemed to realize what it was.

In the book, the wielder of all three controls the Deathly Hallows. Harry (by the logic presented at the end of the book) was the elder wands rightful master for the whole of book 7. He (and Voltimort) just didn't know it. He already had the cloak and Harry being the descendent of the brother that had the cloak was also a nod in that direction as well. Therefore the last of the items that rightfully made Harry the master of death hallows is the ring (stone). He couldn't get his hands on it until he spoke the words heading toward the Forbidden Forest.

The whole mastering thing goes into wand-magic and dueling. The wand gets to choose the wizard, except in a duel. That was what was throwing Voltimort off the whole time--he thought Snape won mastery because of Snape's deception, when really it was Draco.

Heck, I'm not sure why the Stone wasn't destroyed. Or, if it wasn't "destroyed", why it was no longer a Horcrux, but it's not important.

The book never gives the sequence of events--it just shows a cracked ring (that is no longer a horacrux) and a wounded Dumbledore with Snape giving him a curative. Dumbledore could have easily tried to use the Hallows application of the stone before destroying it as a horacrux. Perhaps swayed by his overwhelming grief/guilt about his sister and mother in conjunction with the effect of the horacrux.

All in all, it was a fun read, and it was nice parallel to Harry becoming an adult to see the wizard world through adult eyes (rather than view school life through adolescent eye like the previous books).

-suzi

 

[Vocenoctum]

In the book, the wielder of all three controls the Deathly Hallows. Harry (by the logic presented at the end of the book) was the elder wands rightful master for the whole of book 7. He (and Voltimort) just didn't know it.

Not quite, he doesn't defeat Draco until a good ways in. The logic that defeating Draco when Draco didn't even have possession of the wand (sure, he had "ownership") is odd too.

He already had the cloak and Harry being the descendent of the brother that had the cloak was also a nod in that direction as well. Therefore the last of the items that rightfully made Harry the master of death hallows is the ring (stone). He couldn't get his hands on it until he spoke the words heading toward the Forbidden Forest.

The whole mastering thing goes into wand-magic and dueling. The wand gets to choose the wizard, except in a duel. That was what was throwing Voltimort off the whole time--he thought Snape won mastery because of Snape's deception, when really it was Draco.

Yeah, everything's been said before there. The Mastering Process for the wand does not apply to the other items, and there is no sign that the process of "mastering" either other item had any tangible benefits. Being Master of the Deathly Hallows is also meaningless in any tangible sense.

It's like if he was proud of being "The Boy Who Lived", it just really doesn't make a difference. The Stone was only powerful as a plot device to solve a dillema created specifically for it to solve.