Harry Potter & the Order of the Phoenix (film #5) - Rampant speculation and bashing!

[Desdichado]

Ah, you are assuming it is supposed to be this big moment...in the book it wasn't a big moment so I don't consider it one.

Uh, yeah, in the book it was a big moment. Huge, even. It was just a very weak big moment.

 

[Crothian]

Uh, yeah, in the book it was a big moment. Huge, even. It was just a very weak big moment.

I don't think it was a big moment in the book. I think JK wanted it to be a big moment, but it didn't come off that way at all.

 

[Desdichado]

But Goblet of Fire didn't do it for me and broke far too much with the successful formula of the past films.

The past films coasted on the popularity of the source material. They weren't really very good movies in their own right. And the formula was demonstrably not that successful; the takes of the movies was down nearly $100 million between 1 and 3.

And I do think that there seems to be a dividing line over those who really liked Goblet of Fire and those who did not. If you read the books - you liked the film. Mainly, I think it's because that knowledge from the book is filling in the huge gaps in the movie.

On what are you basing that claim? This movie, more than the past ones, was self-contained, in my opinion--depending less on what the viewer supposedly already knew to coast through the plot. And I certainly haven't seen any indication of any dividing line as you describe. If you want to make claims like that, find something to back them up! Critical reviews and user reviews on sites like Yahoo! and whatnot lean exactly the opposite way; folks in general are liking this movie the best of all the Harry Potter movies to date, regardless of whether or not they've seen the movie, for the most part.

That's the joy of speaking with empirical data behind you instead of trying to make out your own opinion out to be some kind of Truth.

If they are dumping the current writer to get a better adapatation for Order of the Phoenix - good for them. He may have been great at working out lighter material but the last movie was not up to par with the first three films.

They're not "dumping" him, he stepped down. On a high note, in my opinion, since he really got his feel for the HP movies after the lackluster "lighter" scripts he wrote for the first two books. And since the new selected screenwriter has had a string of poorly viewed screenplays under his belt, with only one real "hit", I'm skeptical.

I'd rather they went back to the director of Prisoner of Azkaban too.

No doubt. You've made your disdain for every aspect of the new movie abundantly clear in several threads now. Don't look for him to come back anytime soon, though--just the opening weekend take for 4 was almost half of the entire run of 3.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

It may have been "fine" to you but I found that it lacked the magic of the first three and it was too rushed.

I was disappointed in Goblet of Fire, I really was. Rather reluctantly and hesitantly I have become a fan of the movie series. I have never read the books, although my wife and kids have.

But Goblet of Fire didn't do it for me and broke far too much with the successful formula of the past films.

And I do think that there seems to be a dividing line over those who really liked Goblet of Fire and those who did not. If you read the books - you liked the film. Mainly, I think it's because that knowledge from the book is filling in the huge gaps in the movie.

If they are dumping the current writer to get a better adapatation for Order of the Phoenix - good for them. He may have been great at working out lighter material but the last movie was not up to par with the first three films.

I'd rather they went back to the director of Prisoner of Azkaban too.

I'm not sure you are going to like any of the rest of the movies since the emphasis isn't on the shool anymore and is instead on Harry and Voldermort for the most part. They are only going to get darker and less "fun" from here on out.

 

[Desdichado]

I don't think it was a big moment in the book. I think JK wanted it to be a big moment, but it didn't come off that way at all.

Exactly my point, I think.

I don't know how you can say it's not a big moment, though, when it fundamentally changed the nature of the next book. It was the pivotal moment in that entire book, with incredible ramifications, especially to the character development of Harry himself. That certainly qualifies as a big moment to me. But it was a very weak big moment.

 

[David Howery]

they should be making these movies like they did for LOTR... film lots of scenes, cut the theatrical film down to the basics, put the extra scenes back in for a 'special edition' release....

 

[Umbran]

I don't think it was a big moment in the book. I think JK wanted it to be a big moment, but it didn't come off that way at all.

I don't think she intended it to be a big moment, in the standard sense of the word, and I think that's part of the point - important things often happen in anticlimatic ways.

The thing is that if it had been a "big moment" there'd be more conclusion to it, a more solid feeling that Sirius was gone. But she wants Harry to lack that closure.

 

[Rykion]

they should be making these movies like they did for LOTR... film lots of scenes, cut the theatrical film down to the basics, put the extra scenes back in for a 'special edition' release....

That's what I would hope for as well. They should try to get Peter Jackson to direct HP 5 & 6 back to back. Then the movies could be 3 hours at the theater and 4 on DVD. We might hear book purists complaints about the army of house elves that come to save the day at the end of Order of the Phoenix though.

 

[Henry]

Peter Jackson had one big advantage -- he had the cast on-site for a year to film 75% of the scenes in the 3 movies at one time. He got a LOT of material, just on the off chance that he'd need it and never did. It meant he got 9 hours worth of movies inthe theater, and about 13 on the DVDs.

 

[stevelabny]

I think JK wanted it to be a big moment, but it didn't come off that way at all.

Um, dude... thats the point. It FAILED at what it was trying to do, therefore its bad. (and in my opinion, one of the worst ever)

I don't think she intended it to be a big moment, in the standard sense of the word, and I think that's part of the point - important things often happen in anticlimatic ways.

The thing is that if it had been a "big moment" there'd be more conclusion to it, a more solid feeling that Sirius was gone. But she wants Harry to lack that closure.

this is a fine line to walk when writing a book, and in my opinion she failed on every count.
They hyped the death before the book came out, trumpeting it to anyone who would listen, setting it up to be a bigger moment than they delivered.
Then Sirius falls into a curtain. A curtain????? Curtains don't kill!
Harry (and more importantly THE READERS) say "it was just a curtain, they can get him back" and "1st rule of movies, no body, no death".
But then the other characters in the book (and JK in interviews) keep insisting he's really dead. Harry eventually accepts their word because he trusts Dumbledore and the others. As an impartial observer, I don't belief any of these older wizards. Why should I believe that Sirius is dead?

In real life, or in a fictional story thats trying to go for "sometimes death happens quickly and unexpectedly and without reason or a cool moment" there is ALWAYS a body. there HAS TO BE a body for that to work. Without a body, and especially when magic is involved, the readers will never believe the moment.

So Harry wound up with his closure, but the readers never got theirs.

First the scene itself is spoiled because you have no idea what happened to Sirius, and then it is never explained well enough to actually be believable.

The fifth book painted angry Harry so well early on, and failed on so many levels after that.

Of course, turning it into a movie might actually HELP the fifth book, as you should be able to keep some important character stuff early, and have a big made-for-film battle at the end, and it might actually be possible to make the curtain scary, or the death REAL (for example, if Sirius' skin melts off his bones as he tumbles through)