Has Anyone Introduced New Gamers to 4E?

[Gothmog]

There's something about this that seems a little strange and irks my irksome bits somewhat. So the fact that they were complete novice players, playing disparate/underpowered characters well above 1st level, with a group of expert power-gamers under a different DM who didn't seem to be catering to their circumstances didn't affect or colour their game experience?

It was all the editions fault?... I have to be a little impolite and say I don't think so. Under different circumstances catering to their needs, I'm sure they would have enjoyed 3.5 much more than they did with that group

Well, it is a somewhat odd circumstance. At this point the players aren't novices anymore- they have gamed weekly (and sometimes twice a week) for six months, and have developed a good understanding of how to play and solve problems. The DM for the game pre-generated the characters for my buddy and his wife, and then helped them tweak them to their desires, so it isn't like they are unoptomized. I looked at the characters, and they are 32 point buy characters that look like something off the char-ops forums (the save DC for the wizards spells are 17 + spell level and the ranger is also pretty dang tough). However, the DM is an extreme rules-stickler, and from what my friend says, he tends to focus on rather linear and direct plots. I don't dispute for a moment that who is running the game can play a huge role in the enjoyment of the game, but it goes beyond that in this case.

For example, after reading the 3.5 PHB, my friend can't fathom why someone wouldn't prefer the static defenses of 4e over the saves of 3.5. Or why grapple and combat maneuvers are so complicated. Or critical hit ranges and confirmation rolls. Or why spellcasters seem so much more powerful than non-spellcasters. And there were other things he didn't care for. His wife also much prefers the 4e version of the ranger because she actually gets to have a choice in powers and abilities, rather than "shoot" or "two-weapon attack" every round. Not to belabor the point, but they both listed a series of mechanical and design differences they found distasteful in 3.5, and if a player isn't happy with their character or the underlying system, the game won't be as much fun. So while the system may not be entirely at fault for their dislike of it, it certainly does play a role.

Moral of the story is not every system appeals to everyone. The same problems my friends are facing with 3.5 were the same problems I ran into during the early 2000s when I tried to introduce new gamers to D&D 3.x (and at that point I enjoyed playing and running 3.x). During that time, I introduced 12 people to gaming via D&D 3e. While some of them kept gaming with 3.x, most of them (9 of the 12) thought the system too arcane and unfriendly, and didn't stay with gaming, or moved to other games. I've not seen that situation occur at all with 4e (with 7 new gamers introduced so far, no dropouts), and in fact I'd say 4e is much more "new gamer friendly" than anything since 1e.

 

[CharlesRyan]

I've played a fair amount with players new to RPGs, players who hadn't played in a decade or two, and (that rarest of gamer) players who had played RPGs in the past, but never D&D. All of them seemed to grasp 4E with little difficulty. Those who were joining our regular gaming group are still in it (a year and a half later), so they must be enjoying themselves!

Some people suggest that introducing new players through the act of roleplaying (and glossing over rules) is a good idea. Based on my anecdotal as well as professional experience, I disagree. People expect games to have rules, and grownups are usually OK with the idea that the rules might be complex or hard to grasp initially. (How many times have you sat down to explain a board game to someone, only to have them say, after a few lines of the rules, "let's just play and I'll pick it up as we go"? People are comfortable learning rules--even complex rules--through play.)

Because they expect games to have rules, and expect that they are supposed to follow those rules, people get anxious when they feel like they might not be playing according to the rules. This anxiety, in some people, prevents them from enjoying the other aspects of the game (roleplaying, exploration, etc.). They're too worried that they're doing it "wrong" to get any pleasure from the activity.

On the flip side, the roleplaying side of the activity is more arcane--it falls so far outside most people's experiences with games that they often have a hard time wrapping their heads around it. It's also frankly a bit more intimate than the competitive games they might be used to, and that might make them a bit hesitant in the first few hours of play.

Fortunately, the roleplaying aspect is easy to fall into once the game is going. So my advice is to not "hide" the rules, but let the players come to understand the game in the terms they are used to--the "game" part of the RPG activity. That will give the new players a chance to relax and enjoy it, and the rest will follow quickly.

 

[avin]

I introduced 15 people to 4E already. Only two aren't playing it anymore.

 

[delericho]

I have a game to run in 2 days for a small group (2-3 players) of complete gaming newbies. I think that 3.5 or Pathfinder might be a little too complex for them. 4E seems to be much more streamlined.

To be honest, every edition of D&D since the "Red Box" days has been too complex for newbies. Or, rather, the amount of rules information that must be assimilated all at once is too daunting. It would be nice to start new players off with them creating their characters, but that's just not feasible.

That said, 4e does have a distinct advantage over 3e in two regards: first level characters aren't quite so fragile, and characters never truly run out of powers. These two should make the 1st level experience a more satisfying demo. With 3e, I'm always tempted to demo at 4th level or so to avoid these problems - but that then causes problems with character complexity.

In my experience, the best way to introduce new players to D&D (any recent edition) is with a fairly light 'one shot' game with pre-generated characters. Ideally, such a game would have a group of newbies, with a single trusted 'old hand' gamer in the group to help guide the new guys (but not take over the game). Get them playing as quickly as possible, and introduce the rules gradually as you go.

Regarding your comment about 4e being more 'streamlined', that's only mostly true. The extra emphasis on movement in combat, coupled with such elements as 'marking' and the exception-based design, has actually added some fairly shocking levels of complexity to the game. On balance, the whole game is probably easier to handle, but it's not a huge step forward. (Other enhancements, such as ease-of-prep, geniunely are a big step forward, though.)

Ultimately, however, in answer to the question you actually asked: no, I haven't introduced any real people to 4e.

 

[Phaezen]

I have introduced new players to 4e, one thing that could help is printing out the first 13 pages of the Quickstart Rules and let the players read through them before the game.

Also, remind players about class abilities, for example fighters marking, and let them use them in combat a couple of times, so have creatures shift or move next to the fighter and remind him about his combat superiority.

Also, as a general rule try and reward creative thinking.

 

[Herschel]

That said, 4e does have a distinct advantage over 3e in two regards: first level characters aren't quite so fragile, and characters never truly run out of powers. These two should make the 1st level experience a more satisfying demo. With 3e, I'm always tempted to demo at 4th level or so to avoid these problems - but that then causes problems with character complexity.

This, especially for the wizard player.

 

[Hairfoot]

For absolute newbies, I use Dungeon Squad.

Once players have a grasp of what RPGs are, they can decide for themselves whether they want to play a fantasy roleplaying game or a supers boardgame with roleplaying elements.

 

[wedgeski]

I have introduced a brand new table-top RPG'er to 4E. She came from nothing more than a WoW background, and really got to grips with the game very quickly.

We did character generation off-table around a take-away one night, with the books open in front of us, which I would suggest is much more preferable to using the Character Builder. That was a fun night, and enabled us to talk about the game in general, what Powers were, how they worked, what the game looked like, and what she should expect at the table. We barely touched on roleplaying. As far as I'm concerned that either comes naturally, by watching everyone else, or it doesn't.

I don't recommend starting with the "give me your concept and I'll make your character" angle, either. Character gen is a convenient way of introducing all the core concepts of the game, and the player is probably going to want as much ownership over those stats as anyone else.

The critical requirement for the DM of a new player is to ensure that the spotlight is never on them for longer than they want it. Do *not*, like I have seen some DM's do, think you have to be "cruel to be kind" and drop some heavy conversational roleplaying on them in their first session. The result in all but the most exceptional cases will be a train-wreck.

New players are going to be very impressionable during those first sessions, so make the game as easy as possible for them. Missed on a Daily? Nah, let's say you hit, just this once. Don't know which Power to use? Just pick the one that sounds the coolest. Oof! Took a beating there, luckily it wasn't enough to take you out of the fight (DM hastily changes crit to non-crit).

Treat the first two session of any new gamer's table-top experience like the first hour of a CRPG. It's all on-screen hints, constrained options, bad guys that fall over as soon as you set eyes on them, and NPC's more than willing to help.

 

[Davachido]

I introduced about 8 new players in 2 different gaming groups this last week to 4e. It took some time but they are getting there. Everyone is different so they will all learn differently, though the first thing they will need is a class that they will enjoy the type of playstyle/idea of the class. I tried to get them to pick a class that they most liked the look of first, thankfully I wasn't the only vet player there as some of my friends from last year's play group helped me explain the rules at a better pace.

Though a few things to note:

• Explain carefully how 'attack' and 'damage' rolls work as this seems to be the hardest thing to grasp for new players as I've noticed. Mostly how to calculate them from the base stats.
• Use a series of combats to introduce different parts of the combat system to them. e.g. First combat; basic flow. Second combat; Action points added. Third combat; Second wind and status effects from enemies.
• I used a mini-dungeon run at the end of the first session to introduce the new players to the idea of traps and exploration which they seemed to grasp quite quickly.
• If a player doesn't like the class they picked, encourage them to take a new one. Try to suggest one that is akin to how they played through the first session. Having a player go through a campaign with a class they don't like espcially a new player isn't the greatest of things.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I'd say half of our local RPGA crowd has been new gamers introduced to 4E. In my home group, we've added several over the course of the 18 months or so we've been playing 4E. Most have hit the ground running, and a girl in my sunday group was able to contribute on an equal level with the veterans in a level 14 game(playing a Wizard, and being able to manage all the powers a level 14 character has) after two RPGA sessions for practice.

In my experience introducing new players to 4E has been a snap. The only trouble I've had with introducing people to 4E is when introducing it to people for whom 3E was the only RPG they've ever played. 4E is a very different game, and people who tried to play it like they played 3E had a very rough time. I started out a campaign early in 4E's tenure with a couple of pure newbies and a couple of 3E veterans, and the newbies caught on much faster. This being said, people who have played 3.5E in addition to other RPG systems picked up 4E the easiest out of everyone.