Has Anyone Tried a No Cash Game

[Crothian]

Ah ha! This is where we disagree. Fighting bad guys with spell and sword, that is the core part of the D&D genre to me. The looting and getting money are not.

Thanks for the insight.

Well, hopefully your players also agree with this. THe modules though for the most part and many books that are written for the game agree that it is a core part of the game. It is a built in assumption into the rules; if it wasn't it wouldn;'t be this controsversial to change it.

 

[Staffan]

I was thinking that when you hit the new level, everything you had would be "wiped out" and you'd start from fresh again. Potions, same deal.

I think that's how it's supposed to work under the standard rules. Just because you spend 300 gp on a potion of cure moderate wounds at level 3 doesn't mean your "standard wealth" for level 4 should be reduced.

Under standard rules, the "wealth per level" thing isn't really relevant once play starts. What you get is what you get. The wealth-per-level values is meant for generating high-level characters, and are supposed to be based on 13.33 encounters per level with EL = level, giving appropriate treasure split four ways, and some of that treasure having been used on expendables and upkeep.

That said, if you're going to use a "floating treasure" system, you could look at the RPGA's guidelines for the Mark of Heroes campaign (I don't know if they do the same in their other campaigns). Basically, before each adventure you can retool your equipment list as you want, with a fixed gp value. Consumables cost 5x as much, but are "refreshed" between each adventure.

 

[LostSoul]

Under standard rules, the "wealth per level" thing isn't really relevant once play starts. What you get is what you get. The wealth-per-level values is meant for generating high-level characters, and are supposed to be based on 13.33 encounters per level with EL = level, giving appropriate treasure split four ways, and some of that treasure having been used on expendables and upkeep.

Really. I always assumed that the table in there helped you to balance encounters. Well, that's how I used it. (ie. If the PCs have less materiel than is shown on the table, they will be weaker than their level shows, and vice versa.)

 

[ThirdWizard]

Really. I always assumed that the table in there helped you to balance encounters.

Yeah. It's basically the foundation that CR is built upon.

 

[DonTadow]

Isn't throwing out levels of realism what the game is all about? Hit points, five-foot shifts, iterative attacks, etc. They are all grossly unrealistic, but allow the game to progress. So what is the difference between those abstractions and the proposed monetary one?

If you throw out too much you turn the role playing game into something else. ONe way you got a board game, the other way you have a a novel. Have you asked your party one simple question? why do they like their pc to adventure. Its one thing for us as DMs to want a heroic campaign but forcing the players to be more heroic by taking away their option to take equipment and visit merchants might not be providing the players with the experience they wish to have.

Instead of devising a new system, you can alter the old ones if youre finding shopping cumbersome. In one campaign I played in, the DM did away with the party looting individual bodies. It was never mentioned. But when the pcs finished the adventure or got into a town the dm presented the party with the party's loot total and a list of items they could buy. This was usually presented before or after game. When the game started the pcs intereacted with the merchants as if they had purchased the items from them.

This is similar to the way that many convention campaigns perform purchases.

 

[Thia Halmades]

Eh, basically, my campaign runs on a "I hate wealth management" structure. Why you ask?

Because I hate wealth management, I thought we covered that? I granted the PCs ancestral weapons, they find some loot, but the structure of the game is war oriented. You get your gear, the enemy gets their gear, and you cross your fingers and hope you don't get killed in the ensuing fire fight. Finding enemy gear isn't really going to be interesting until they start killing well equipped demon Lieutenants, but my other primary concern is that once you have the GoOS, or the Frost Brand, the fear factor of facing off against a demon - of the appropriate challenge rating - is significantly diminished.

 

[Thia Halmades]

Don: I thought we covered this. I am running a novel, that has a bunch of primary actors who don't have scripts and keep changing the outcome. That isn't to say (and I reiterate this so I don't get flamed) that D&D, the core concept of murder/loot/improve/rinse/repeat isn't valid; but it isn't what I do, and my players know that. When they sit down, they know precisely what they've gotten themselves into, and are so engrossed in the story that the only thing we've discovered is that D&D isn't flexible enough for them to do what they want.

That's not an indictment of D&D, it's just my oil hitting canvas; it looks different when it dries than when it was wet. So you have to remix the paint, which is time consuming. I want to get to a point where the paint can be adjusted with a hint of white, instead of having to redo the batch, which is often how D&D feels.

HERO does away with part of that because you have to burn points to hold onto loot, according to my current (grossly limited) understanding of the system. That works out MUCH better for what I'm doing than a D&D structure where my wizard has 5th level magic and can start twisting reality in uncomfortable, game breaking directions. In a Wealth Management structure, I'm supposed to outfit the PCs to keep them on pace with the Wizard so they can go kill the next dragon and loot the hoard. But that isn't what I run, so it makes the whole not cumbersome, but down right useless.

 

[maggot]

Have you asked your party one simple question? why do they like their pc to adventure. Its one thing for us as DMs to want a heroic campaign but forcing the players to be more heroic by taking away their option to take equipment and visit merchants might not be providing the players with the experience they wish to have.

Why would you assume that I have not talked to my players? This is exactly what everyone in the campaign wants. No one is being forced into anything.

 

[DonTadow]

Why would you assume that I have not talked to my players? This is exactly what everyone in the campaign wants. No one is being forced into anything.

Notice how i worded the question. Did you ask your players
A. I want to get rid of the current bartering system and go with this system, how do you like it?
or
B. What do you like about adventuring, looting and purchasing items? Do you have any suggestions to improve it?


Those are two very different questions. One, you are telling the players your ideas and 9 times out of 10 the players will agree with you, even if they don't like it or like the other way more. It's a pyschology thing. Like if I ask you a question and nod my head. 9 times out of 10 you;ll either agree with me or don't care (if its not a subject important to you). The problem with this is that the players will only be agreeing to appease the DM and get on with the game. You woudlnt be providing them their maximum enjoyement.

With the second way you're incorporating their input. HOnestly there may very well not be a problem, only on your end, and by asking them what they think you might find a better way to solve their problem while not hindering their enjoyment.

I just don't see 5 people wanting this experience out of their game. It's not to say I dont see five people agreeing with it if you force the question on them.

 

[maggot]

Believe it or not, DonTadow, myself and my five players all want to get rid of the current system. As DM, it is my task to come up with a system and present it to the players. So far, they have liked the idea and I'm asking here for problem before I start.

I'm willing to see that other groups want something out of D&D that is different from what we want. Why is it so hard for you (and others) to see that?

Of course, this is a rhetorical question. I'm done with this thread. I've gotten a little useful information out of it, but mostly I've gotten people telling me we are playing the game wrong, or that I'm screwing my players over. Thanks non-sarcastically to those that did the former. Thanks sarcastically to those that did the latter.