Has the wave crested? (Bo9S)

[Henry]

Casters no longer need to fear Anti-magic Fields, for the cost of two feats (martial study: Iron Heart Surge and martial study: prereq for Iron Heart Surge) they can bring one down 1/encounter. Worth it everytime? I think so.

If I understand it right, an antimiagic field doesn't affect YOU; it only affects your items and spells. So no dice there, if that's true.

 

[Drowbane]

If I understand it right, an antimiagic field doesn't affect YOU; it only affects your items and spells. So no dice there, if that's true.

Thats how I would run it. IMC, Iron Heart Surge is far more limited than what WotC CustServ would have you believe.

 

[Henry]

Thats how I would run it. IMC, Iron Heart Surge is far more limited than what WotC CustServ would have you believe.

WotC CUSTOMER SERVICE gave that interpretation? Yeesh. If so, that's... silly. That's a 3rd level effect from a 5th level character trumping a 6th level area effect from a character over twice its level. No way...

 

[pawsplay]

Question -

Do you have a problem with psionics?

Particularly the psychic warrior class, both in conception and execution.

Because under the ki/psionics-are-the-same transparancy, martial initiates are doing the exact same thing. They're physical adepts. Channeling magic in a particular way to enhance their fighting.

No, because psionics has an explanation that makes sense in the setting. I.e. if you include psionics, it works off psionic energy.

Whereas Bo9S basically says, "Wouldn't it be cool if fighters could go all Matrix?"

The fireball argument is just not relevant. A fireball is a spell. The whole problem with maneuvers is that they exist in a world of spells, but are not themselves spells, although they sure look like them sometime. Does something like a Spellsword even make sense in a world of warblades and crusaders? Does a wizard even make sense when someone can learn to use supernatural powers to be almost as destructive, while also gaining great physical prowess?

I'm just not into Street Fighter: Underdark edition as my D&D. I'm fine with Bo9S for what it is, but to me it's something I can imagine a third party coming out with as their own d20 offering, not something I think should be added to D&D.

And it's not a great book. It's named after nine weapons which use rules from another book which is just about the worst product in D&D. The style is poor man's Exalted. The design is about on par with the 3.0 psionics handbook. Balance is in the neighborhood of Masters of the Wild. The milieu has no place in a conventional Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms or Krynn or Mystara. The Knights of Solamnia and Neraka, for instance, do not know kung fu.

 

[Drowbane]

WotC CUSTOMER SERVICE gave that interpretation? Yeesh. If so, that's... silly. That's a 3rd level effect from a 5th level character trumping a 6th level area effect from a character over twice its level. No way...

Agreed.

 

[Henry]

The milieu has no place in a conventional Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms or Krynn or Mystara. The Knights of Solamnia and Neraka, for instance, do not know kung fu.

Not even among the Bakluni (Desert Wind)? or the Scarlet Brotherhood (Setting Sun)?
Or the Shou Lung? or the Jungles of Chult (Tiger Claw)?

I could, however, definitely see The Solamnic Knights pulling off some of the White Raven stuff - group tactics, group charges, enemy flanks, morale-boosting cries, etc.

There's more to it than martial-arts shouts and mile-high leaps. I have problems with it myself, but not on flavor.

 

[Nifft]

WotC CUSTOMER SERVICE gave that interpretation? Yeesh. If so, that's... silly. That's a 3rd level effect from a 5th level character trumping a 6th level area effect from a character over twice its level. No way...

With the WotC CustServ ruling, you could also end storm of vengeance ... it is a silly ruling.

-- N

PS: Perhaps knights don't know kung-fu (Setting Sun). But they may have the ability to inspire others (White Raven), to call upon the blessings of their faith through prowess and bravery (Divine Spirit), or to do tricks requiring nothing more than skill and guts (Tiger Claw), or to draw on their personal pool of awesome to open a can of badass (Iron Heart).

 

[Nepenthe]

I could, however, definitely see The Solamnic Knights pulling off some of the White Raven stuff - group tactics, group charges, enemy flanks, morale-boosting cries, etc.

Yep. White Raven is quite good for any fighter type emphasising group tactics, Iron Heart for consummate weapon skill and Diamond Mind for determination. I could see faith-based knights (to stick with Dragonlance, Skull Knights and some Solamnics) use Devoted Spirit as well.

I was looking at one point at creating some DL PrCs with maneuver progressions for the DL Nexus, but frankly I no longer see the point in it, the base classes are flexible enough if you burn a few feats on flavour. I do hope this book gets a little love in the future, if nothing else I'd settle for a more comprehensive guide into creating new maneuvers/schools... Or some flavoury alternative class features or something

If nothing else, dropping a maneuver or stance or two through feats on some NPCs will at least spice them up a bit

As for what the Iron Heart Surge can end, I think that the new 3.5 FAQ clarifies that...

/N

 

[hong]

Just ban antimagic field.

-- N

I do that too.

 

[hong]

The fireball argument is just not relevant. A fireball is a spell. The whole problem with maneuvers is that they exist in a world of spells, but are not themselves spells, although they sure look like them sometime. Does something like a Spellsword even make sense in a world of warblades and crusaders? Does a wizard even make sense when someone can learn to use supernatural powers to be almost as destructive, while also gaining great physical prowess?

Breath weapon is supernatural. Dragon shamans have breath weapons. Does being a wizard make sense when you could just be a dragon shaman?