Hasbro CEO Chris Cocks Talks AI Usage in D&D [UPDATED!]

Hasbro CEO Chris Cocks is convinced that the Dungeons & Dragons franchise will support some kind of AI usage in the future. Speaking today at a Goldman Sachs event, Cocks spoke about how AI products could soon support Dungeons & Dragons and other Hasbro brands. Asked about whether AI has the potential to "bend the cost curve" in terms of entertainment development or digital gaming, and how it's being used in the toy and content industries, Cocks said the following:

"Inside of development, we've already been using AI. It's mostly machine-learning-based AI or proprietary AI as opposed to a ChatGPT approach. We will deploy it significantly and liberally internally as both a knowledge worker aid and as a development aid. I'm probably more excited though about the playful elements of AI. If you look at a typical D&D player....I play with probably 30 or 40 people regularly. There's not a single person who doesn't use AI somehow for either campaign development or character development or story ideas. That's a clear signal that we need to be embracing it. We need to do it carefully, we need to do it responsibly, we need to make sure we pay creators for their work, and we need to make sure we're clear when something is AI-generated. But the themes around using AI to enable user-generated content, using AI to streamline new player introduction, using AI for emergent storytelling, I think you're going to see that not just our hardcore brands like D&D but also multiple of our brands."

Wizards of the Coast representatives has repeatedly said that Dungeons & Dragons is a game made by people for people, as multiple AI controversies has surrounded the brand and its parent company. Wizards updated its freelance contracts to explicitly prohibit use of AI and has pulled down AI-generated artwork that was submitted for Bigby's Presents: Glory of the Giants in 2023 after they learned it was made using AI tools.

A FAQ related to AI specifically notes that "Hasbro has a vast portfolio of 1900+ brands of which Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons are two – two very important, cherished brands. Each brand is going to approach its products differently. What is in the best interest of Trivial Pursuit is likely quite different than that of Magic: The Gathering or Dungeons & Dragons." This statement acknowledges that Hasbro may use AI for other brands, while also stating that Wizards is trying to keep AI-generated artwork away from the game. However, while Wizards seems to want to keep AI away from D&D and Magic, their parent company's CEO seems to think that AI and D&D aren't naturally opposed.

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UPDATE -- Greg Tito, who was WotC's communications director until recently, commented on BlueSky: "I'm deeply mistrustful of AI and don't want people using it anywhere near my D&D campaigns."

 

[UngainlyTitan]

That sounds dire.

How painful do you expect things to get if Sachs follow Cocks into D&D?

With as much as was spent to purchase DDB, I imagine that Hasbro hopes to get a return on investment.

Does Goldman Sachs having a working relationship with WotC or Hasbro?

Goldman Sachs is not following Cocks anywhere, they are hosting a thing for investors and CEOs and when investors and Sachs says "Dance " CEOs dance, it is part of the job in public trade companies.
He is not really committing to anything: "We use it internally" could mean anything from we are using ChatGBT search to CAD or Adobe AI assisted tools to a whole proprietary system.

AI is coming and some of it will be useful. I have my doubts about Large Language Models but some AI developments will be very beneficial.

 

[Argyle King]

Goldman Sachs is not following Cocks anywhere, they are hosting a thing for investors and CEOs and when investors and Sachs says "Dance " CEOs dance, it is part of the job in public trade companies.
He is not really committing to anything: "We use it internally" could mean anything from we are using ChatGBT search to CAD or Adobe AI assisted tools to a whole proprietary system.

AI is coming and some of it will be useful. I have my doubts about Large Language Models but some AI developments will be very beneficial.

So, it's more like Cocks being dangled in front of Sachs as part of a basic corporate affair?

That makes a little more sense.

I had thought AI might be used in a manner similar to a supermarket using self-check out at a supermarket. Instead of needing a handful of cashiers, you only need one or two people to monitor the output and make the occasional adjustments when necessary.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

So, it's more like Cocks being dangled in front of Sachs as part of a basic corporate affair?

That is at least a large part the job of CEO's at the public corporate level. They do other stuff also but keeping the owner(s)/investors happy is a big part.

That makes a little more sense.

I had thought AI might be used in a manner similar to a supermarket using self-check out at a supermarket. Instead of needing a handful of cashiers, you only need one or two people to monitor the output and make the occasional adjustments when necessary.

That is not to say that this is not on somebodies cards but there is no indication of that here. From what I have seen, some stores on this side of the pond have been cutting back on the automated checkouts, though not in the local store just yet.

 

[MoonSong]

use ChatGPT to fix my grammar and spelling mistakes (I do support this, as this makes it easier for non-native English speakers to contribute)

On this one, non-native speakers have, on average, better grammar and orthography than native ones. And using LLMs for spellchecking is overkill.

 

[TiQuinn]

If you look at a typical D&D player....I play with probably 30 or 40 people regularly. There's not a single person who doesn't use AI somehow for either campaign development or character development or story ideas.

Regarding the quote above from Chris Cocks…

Who regularly plays in an organic way with 30 to 40 people? How could that possibly be viewed as typical?

I’ve played around with ChatGPT to build out a Ravenloft campaign once. It told me that it’s a dark and mysterious land shrouded with mist where Strahd and Harkon Lukas rule Ravenloft with an iron fist. Harkon Lukas was a powerful necromancer in Darkon, etc, etc, …and point is, it was basically mad libs garbage. If someone uses it for a quick blurb, and finds it useful, that’s great.

As for Hasbro, as with walled gardens and MMOs, you can’t simply will these things into existence. AI is not a strategy.

 

[Mallus]

"Here at Buffalo Wild Wings we're incorporating AI..."

This is how CEOs have to talk right now. I'd call it a bitter pill to swallow, but it's more of an amusing pill that's probably illegal. Except for the energy and water usage involved in running generative AI systems, which isn't funny at all.

But he's not wrong about DMs using AI tools, at least as far as the two campaigns I'm currently in. Both DMs (me and my old college buddy) use AI to make campaign illustrations. I've even got them to create passable 2D and isomorphic maps.

I don't think either of us would ever use them to generate text. We like doing that ourselves.

 

[Weiley31]

I don't agree with AI in regard to like stealing people's jobs and the toxic deep fakes made of celebrities and what not. With that being said, I do believe A.I. can be used ethically or in a way that supports, rather than take away. If companies like Disney or Hasbro could understand that, then it would be better for all.

It's a VERY tricky line. AI, like any tool, can be used for good or evil. Sadly, it gets abused way too often.

 

[GMMichael]

It's a VERY tricky line. AI, like any tool, can be used for good or evil. Sadly, it gets abused way too often.

Well, machines and mass production got us off our farms and onto our couches. I hate to think where this next tool will land us.

 

[Staffan]

I've given the whole AI art some thought and here's where I've landed.

I don't have an issue with someone using AI art in a home game. That's roughly on par with using actor publicity shots for PCs/NPCs, and no-one has ever had an issue with that.

I'm against using AI for commercial art "from scratch" (I mean, it's not from scratch per se because it's more like a collage of whatever the model is based on, but you know what I mean).

These two are fairly easy calls to make. The next three are a bit more iffy.

I don't really see a problem with using AI for editing something you already made. For example, various filters have long been a part of various photo-editing packages, and I don't really see a problem with having those powered by AI. This would include both general filters and things like "remove that dude and fill in the background". I also don't have a problem with the text equivalent of basically having the AI proofread and possibly "punch up" a text you wrote.

I'm a little more iffy on using AI for what I'd call "background filler". For example, let's say you have a scene with two spaceships blasting away at one another. I don't really have an issue with having an AI fill in the starfield in the background, but I can see how others would differ.

The third is "commercial art for internal use" – things like concept art, or "sketches" ("I'd like something that looks like this, but in your style instead."). This is the one I have the most trouble with making a call on. On one hand, it's not a thing you're selling. On the other hand, concept art is generally something artists get paid for, and I reckon quite handsomely. But this might perhaps be self-fixing, as concept art is generally the kind of thing where you really want genuine creative energy and ideas, instead of just rehashing the way AI does.

 

[Cergorach]

AI in D&D is such a generic statement that I'm pretty sure that the CEO doesn't know what he's actually talking about and is speaking marketing lingo... In the same way many others here have heard some things, seen some things and are ready to pickup the torches and pitchforks...

Humans vs AI => How well have D&D writers or pnp RPG writers in general been paid? On average, abysmal! And have you seen how little companies pay for (color) art? Companies have also the advantage of scale, so if they order a lot from a freelancer, prices generally go down.

What do you think the average D&D player's budget is like? Not enough to get a custom scene painted for every scene in their adventure! And the amount of art in published adventures isn't enough for that either.

And what some people are showing is like folks using a search engine for the first time or using Yahoo! Search instead of Google, because it was what they found for free... A LOT of the free stuff is great for free stuff, but you want to get some good results, better cough up some money, have some skills and spend some time on it. But it isn't first try is perfect.

I'm also pretty sure that adoption tends to happen by open-minded people that have some skill... And people live in clusters/bubbles, so it isn't strange that either all or none do something within a group. From the people I know, only a tiny portion of them play pnp RPG games. But it's still a huge business, because there are so many people in the world.

I wonder how many of you were using Google Search in 1998? How many were using Google Search well at that time? Even 25+ years later many, many people are still using Google Search horribly, even newer generations! Everything takes skill, even if something is generally not considered a high value skill... Until of course people actually need it. How often I've spoken to people that reach out for help because they haven't found what they were looking for in two hours and I find it for them in 30 seconds... How much money do you think that person searching for two hours costs a company? How much do you value two plus hours of your time? The same with LLM and image generation prompts, how many 'tokens' does an unskilled person waste? How much time?

Portrait painters became photographers, today you can pay a highly skilled professional a decent chunk of cash to make amazing personal photographs or you can go to the dmv. The average D&D (or pnp RPG) book contains many good looking pieces, but it ain't a Monet. The same for the writing, it ain't literature. Heck often a dime-store pulp novel has better writing (and editing) then your average (or better) pnp RPG book. In a 100 years most illustrations/illustrators from pnp RPGs, no one will know about, either their names or their illustrations. See, how I avoid 'art'? Illustrations are mass produced, art is one of a kind. And we hypocrites have no issues with using mass produced items in our daily lives, produced by computers, robots and general automation. We're used to that, we grew up with that, and we don't want to miss that convenience. Do you have any idea how expensive quality handmade clothing/shoes are, especially when made from hand woven fabric (when you don't use workers that are paid so poorly, you could consider it slave labor, and in some cases actual slave labor)?

shrugs Honestly I don't give a flying toss about how WotC/Hasbro implements 'AI' in their products, because:
#1: They are so far behind, that they are insignificant from my perspective (that doesn't mean they couldn't make a ton of money from it though).
#2: They are trying to serve everyone, resulting in making no one happy. At this point I don't see them taking any chances that would result in an interesting or better product then the competition has.
#3: Chances are big that they'll link that 'AI' usage to their existing products like DDB and their upcoming 3D VTT. I don't want to be tied to those ecosystems, because I have very little faith in their long term availability.